Chicago police under fire after 'bait truck' used to lure thieves

[TheGreatA]

I agree with your overall sentiment. But I think there's a tangible difference between a bait car, for example, and leaving around bags of money. That difference being that you have to commit a criminal act, such as breaking and entering, in order to commit the theft. If you're just leaving money around all kinds of people are just going to take it for all kinds of reasons. If you leave bread around, same thing. All you have to do is blur the lines of ownership of whatever it is that's being stolen to be ambiguous enough and people will eventually say ''fuck it, I guess it's mine.'' That's not criminal though, IMO, it's just human nature. However, there's no car that you could leave locked, anywhere, that would make me steal it.

...hell, I have a couple engineering degrees and I'd have to google how to hot-wire a car, I'm not even sure that I could steal a car if you gave me an hour.

Well, I don't know whether these people stole the car, or stole from the car, but in any case they were committing a crime. But then again, a person picking up a bag of marijuana, is also committing a crime.

What I'm saying is not that this is inherently wrong, but that there should probably be a standard for using methods that deviate quite far from the norm. For example, when a DEA agent fakes being a drug buyer or drug seller, they're usually doing it when inter-acting with a known drug trafficker. Likewise, you should only use a "bait car" when you're trying to bait a known car thief.

The problem with these sorts of scenarios is that the police usually have such an extensive understanding of criminal psychology, that they can easily start entrapping people which they know are susceptible to committing crime under certain scenarios. You might leave keys lying around, you might leave the doors open, just about anything to make the "target" stand out. And when a random homeless dude, or drug addict, from a low-income area, walks past a truck that seems to him like "God's gift" from heaven's above, well, it's pretty obvious what's going to happen.

It's still a crime, but it can get pretty ugly too, if it becomes a normalized procedure, and if the cops start applying their extensive knowledge on re-creating scenarios that are basically guaranteed to bait atleast somebody to stealing. But if the cops can explain themselves by saying that the scenario has been created to bait a very particular type of criminal, then I don't think anybody will have a problem with it.

 

[Prokofievian]

Well, I don't know whether these people stole the car, or stole from the car, but in any case they were committing a crime. But then again, a person picking up a bag of marijuana, is also committing a crime.

What I'm saying is not that this is inherently wrong, but that there should probably be a standard for using methods that deviate quite far from the norm. For example, when a DEA agent fakes being a drug buyer or drug seller, they're usually doing it when inter-acting with a known drug trafficker. Likewise, you should only use a "bait car" when you're trying to bait a known car thief.

The problem with these sorts of scenarios is that the police usually have such an extensive understanding of criminal psychology, that they can easily start entrapping people which they know are susceptible to committing crime under certain scenarios. You might leave keys lying around, you might leave the doors open, just about anything to make the "target" stand out. And when a random homeless dude, or drug addict, from a low-income area, walks past a truck that seems to him like "God's gift" from heaven's above, well, it's pretty obvious what's going to happen.

It's still a crime, but it can get pretty ugly too, if it becomes a normalized procedure, and if the cops start applying their extensive knowledge on re-creating scenarios that are basically guaranteed to bait atleast somebody to stealing. But if the cops can explain themselves by saying that the scenario has been created to bait a very particular type of criminal, then I don't think anybody will have a problem with it.

They didn't steal the truck in this case, but from the transport company's statement (who provided the truck), apparently the trailer was locked. I completely agree with the bolded, and to me the delineation is something you refer to in your second paragraph: are the people being caught by this tactic likely to have been thieves who have already committed crimes? To me, actually breaking into a trailer, or hot wiring a car, or circumventing a car alarm is pretty clear evidence of that. Whereas if you just left 500 bucks lying around pretty much anyone for whom cash was tight would take it: it's not an indication of prior criminal history. In that case the government would be creating crimes and criminals for nothing.

 

[Black Helicopters]

If they left it partially open on top of packing it with valuables then I have a small issue with this.

I have no issue with locking up thugs that forcefully break into cars and I think it is tax dollars well spent but there’s a difference between people who will break into a car and drive off and an opportunist who is tempted to steal.

Especially when it is shoes that are worth hundreds of dollars which means pretty much only young impulsive people will steal but aren’t necessarily hardened thugs.

If they left the car completely closed then I wouldn’t have a problem.

 

[Black Helicopters]

They didn't steal the truck in this case, but from the transport company's statement (who provided the truck), apparently the trailer was locked. I completely agree with the bolded, and to me the delineation is something you refer to in your second paragraph: are the people being caught by this tactic likely to have been thieves who have already committed crimes? To me, actually breaking into a trailer, or hot wiring a car, or circumventing a car alarm is pretty clear evidence of that. Whereas if you just left 500 bucks lying around pretty much anyone for whom cash was tight would take it: it's not an indication of prior criminal history. In that case the government would be creating crimes and criminals for nothing.

lol I didn’t see your post until after I submitted mine but pretty much this sums up how I feel

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

For the bleeding hearts, isn't this a good thing? You claim these people can't learn morality at home, so perhaps having the experience of stealing and getting caught is a learning opportunity that crime doesn't pay and in the long run will help these people be better citizens for it?

It takes a village.

 

[floivanus]

Some people don’t understand what entrapment is. Let me try to spell it out for you

If I walk up to somebody on a street corner and ask for directions, they turn around and say “hay man want a dimebag” and I politely decline, then they give me the hard sell, and happen to be a cop, THAT is entrapment.

If I pull my car up to somebody and ask where townhall is, they tell me they’re selling pussy, and I say, NO I’m only wanting the location of town hall, leave me alone and they beg and plead, give the hard sell and eventually force me to cave, THAT is entrapment.

Entrapment is coercing somebody into doing something they normally wouldn’t participate in, it’s why a lot of jurisdictions have banned cops from going into massage parlors or strip clubs and trying to get girls to turn themselves out, that CAN be entrapment, and in many cases has been ruled as entrapment. Parking a truck on a public road isn’t.

 

[DanSavage]

Why are you equating a bank robbery to this ? It is completely disingenuous. Firstly, they left the truck open, unlike a bank which has plenty of security to prevent this. There is no real planning or premeditation to take the things in the truck. You could have just been walking by, saw the truck was open and looked inside.

How about the guy who was walking by the open armored truck carrying gold dust. He was just walking by, saw the gold in the open truck, then reached in an took it.

Which one is the criminal? The one who stole gold dust from an open truck, or the kid who stole shoes from an open truck?