Checking mid kicks

[mocimad3]

lol. Its even worse in no-gi, when they try to do leg locks as well. I remember a spazz using a rape choke when in my guard, WTF moment.

but it is true on MT, guess its due to the ruleset of no G&P. You're also on padwork for majority of the time until 4-6 months in when you're finally allowed to spar.

Don't ever roll with a new guy when he brings his girl to watch, dude can be the nicest guy in the world who apologizes for a 5% power jab, but if poon is watching, he's gonna roll for the mundials

At some gyms they will let you spar sooner than that. At mine I got to try a month in and it wasn't pleasant but then I sparred occasionally for 2-3 months with most of the other students understanding I was new. Until I was up to speed. The rolling in bjj was not conducive to learning even when I was submitting white belts or fighting off blue belts occasionally. The injury to learning ratio was just not worth it.

This is really important actually. Its something new fighters need to work on mostly imo. Some guys do know how to "fight" naturally, but alot of us start opposite to this. I was there myself as well when I was new to this.

Everything needs to be a deterrent. Striking is actually pretty barbaric, someone hits you, you punish them and set boundaries that they can't get away with that for free.

This is something that needs to be taught most of the time imo. Some people pick up on the mentality of fighting faster than others. It's essentially a modified version of the touching a hot stove as a child analogy. Except more complicated.

The same idea of how you can't telegraph your strikes and how feinting a strike works. Some people will just try to force their strike to land and others will naturally pick up on ensuring it lands through craftiness, good timing, and being smart. However, you don't need natural talent if you work on it. Alot of people with natural talent never grow as a fighter and the people with no natural talent who put in work overtake them. You can see this if you look around at a gym and observe for a few months. It's really interesting to watch imo

 

[j123]

Exactly. If I throw a kick at you and you check it and don't come back with something, all I've learned is that if I hammer away at you for long enough one of my strikes is gonna get through, and when you've got shin guards on or alternatively when you've got hard shins, you're not gonna be worried about those checks for long.

The reason Thais are so good at counter kicking is because they are catching kicks and immediately countering ALL the time not only in sparring and drills but in padwork.

It's the way it should be

It is, since day 1, I've been taught after the check to throw a combo, at the minimum a strike. Usually I step down with a 2,3,kick. Or superman -> kick. Or a switch kick to whatever.

Speaking of Thais, I saw on here maybe last year (or 2) when someone said some places there when you're kicking pads, sometimes the padholder will kick out your base leg sweeping you. Now I've never had this before, but have you? It doesn't seem practical imo. Its just going to make the hitter more timid and potshotish

At some gyms they will let you spar sooner than that. At mine I got to try a month in and it wasn't pleasant but then I sparred occasionally for 2-3 months with most of the other students understanding I was new. Until I was up to speed. The rolling in bjj was not conducive to learning even when I was submitting white belts or fighting off blue belts occasionally. The injury to learning ratio was just not worth it.

Depends on the coach and how he/she feels. With ours, it will sound mcdojo-ish, but there's a "test" new guys will take part in before being allowed to spar. The test is free. Its to serve 2 purposes:

1. make sure you have the basic techniques to protect yourself (standing + ground). Can't exactly be allowing people to go in to spar who has no stance, when hit and they turn away getting hit on the side or back of the head, spazz on the ground turning chokes into cranks, basically getting injured down the line
   
   
2. Learn to play well with others

But I have seen some people spar without taking the so called test (I'm excluding people who are experienced already as that's a different matter). They're manageable and aren't chute-box-attempting-murder1-on-you type. They're usually more technical as well. I've only seen 3 people who have been in this case.

This is something that needs to be taught most of the time imo. Some people pick up on the mentality of fighting faster than others. It's essentially a modified version of the touching a hot stove as a child analogy. Except more complicated.

The same idea of how you can't telegraph your strikes and how feinting a strike works. Some people will just try to force their strike to land and others will naturally pick up on ensuring it lands through craftiness, good timing, and being smart. However, you don't need natural talent if you work on it. Alot of people with natural talent never grow as a fighter and the people with no natural talent who put in work overtake them. You can see this if you look around at a gym and observe for a few months. It's really interesting to watch imo

We had a guy who's fairly talented, but once he got what he wanted (won the belt in a MT tourney, medalled in a BJJ tourney) he just flat out quit, kind of sad really.

I think the worst thing is having talent, but not the heart to back it up, and eventually it catches up and leaves an impact.

 

[mocimad3]

Actually I wish they gave the tests you mentioned everywhere. It makes perfect sense. We just had an influx of new people at our gym and if they are allowed to spar I'm not participating. There's a guy who literally covers his head and bends over sideways whenever someone goes after him. He also thinks he knows what he is doing and tries to give others advice. There's been instances where people have sparred and acted like they were in an actual fight and I've had to get really aggressive and shut them down. I've been on the fence about switching gyms for the past couple of months tbh

 

[j123]

Actually I wish they gave the tests you mentioned everywhere. It makes perfect sense. We just had an influx of new people at our gym and if they are allowed to spar I'm not participating. There's a guy who literally covers his head and bends over sideways whenever someone goes after him. He also thinks he knows what he is doing and tries to give others advice. There's been instances where people have sparred and acted like they were in an actual fight and I've had to get really aggressive and shut them down. I've been on the fence about switching gyms for the past couple of months tbh

;p;, Working on head movement?

Before I didn't get it in terms of techniques as I figured most will have a base, but one of the BJJ guys got injured and decided to try out striking; He asked some of us to "spar" with him, and after a session, I told him to not spar until he gets the basics down.

• He turned away and escaped by running out getting hit in the process
• Doesn't have a stance so even a light solid leg kick is nearly sweeping him over
• straight punches are hammer fist looking type slaps

Of course, the local toolbag took full advantage of it.

Turns out he did no striking, maybe 1 or 2 classes (padwork) in his life. Yeah definitely not open to this idea.

Also lol @ giving advice, I can see it though. Having a month in is more than 0 days, so he feels he's capable of doing so.

Gym heros are stupid. Partially I credit it to the coach. Letting them get away with it, and they continue it day in and out. It becomes a virus and starts to "infect" other members, and the end result you end up with a Chute Box type gym. I met one guy that counted his sparring record as an ammy record. Dude said he was 20-4 or something, so I thought he was a pretty exp. fighter. Then he says it was from sparring, and I immediately lost any sense of respect for the guy.

I do know that some gyms are smaller and can't afford to cut someone out because that's money out the door, but at what expense? If they're injuring everyone, esp. the newer members, those guys are going to leave.

I do hate gym heroes, but what's worse than going murder1 in sparring, is doing that in drills. The dipshit I mentioned in another post before. We were doing some sweep similar to a sacrifice throw but from seated guard. Guy couldn't get the technique right, got frustrated so he locked my neck with a guillotine grip, and hauled me over. That pissed me off, it could've gone wrong real bad, and I could've ended up really injured with something spinal.

 

[mocimad3]

;p;, Working on head movement?

Before I didn't get it in terms of techniques as I figured most will have a base, but one of the BJJ guys got injured and decided to try out striking; He asked some of us to "spar" with him, and after a session, I told him to not spar until he gets the basics down.

• He turned away and escaped by running out getting hit in the process
• Doesn't have a stance so even a light solid leg kick is nearly sweeping him over
• straight punches are hammer fist looking type slaps

Of course, the local toolbag took full advantage of it.

Turns out he did no striking, maybe 1 or 2 classes (padwork) in his life. Yeah definitely not open to this idea.

Also lol @ giving advice, I can see it though. Having a month in is more than 0 days, so he feels he's capable of doing so.

Gym heros are stupid. Partially I credit to the coach. Letting them get away it, and they continue day in and out. It becomes a virus and starts to "infect" other members, and the end result you end up with a Chute Box type gym. I met one guy that counted his sparring record as an ammy record. Dude said he was 20-4 or something, so I thought he was a pretty exp. fighter. Then he says it was from sparring, and I immediately lost any sense of respect for the guy.

I do know that some gyms are smaller and can't afford to cut someone out because that's money out the door, but at what expense? If they're injuring everyone, esp. the newer members, those guys are going to leave.

I do hate gym hereos, but what's worse than going murder1 in sparring, is doing that in drills. The dipshit I mentioned in another post before. We were doing some sweep similar to a sacrafice throw but from seated guard. Guy couldn't get the technique right, got frustrated so he locked my neck with a guillotine grip, and hauled me over. That pissed me off, it could've gone wrong real bad, and I could've ended up really injured with something spinal.

I hear you sometimes you just have to avoid people like this at the gym. I'm going to refuse to spar with people who are new, uncontrolled, and dangerous or delusional about what is actually going on.. Total buzzkill to my training. If that doesn't work then i'm done with the current place because there are other reasons to leave as well.

And when I said he covered his head and bent over sideways I meant he stayed like that until you backed up. Basically getting into some sort of standing fetus position and giving up.

 

[j123]

And when I said he covered his head and bent over sideways I meant he stayed like that until you backed up. Basically getting into some sort of standing fetus position and giving up.

fucking lol.
He must use the turtle guard alot

 

[AndyMaBobs]

It is, since day 1, I've been taught after the check to throw a combo, at the minimum a strike. Usually I step down with a 2,3,kick. Or superman -> kick. Or a switch kick to whatever.

Speaking of Thais, I saw on here maybe last year (or 2) when someone said some places there when you're kicking pads, sometimes the padholder will kick out your base leg sweeping you. Now I've never had this before, but have you? It doesn't seem practical imo. Its just going to make the hitter more timid and potshotish

My coach does that to me sometimes, at first it made me nervous about throwing kicks, but eventually I got into the mindset of "Nah, fuck my coach, I'm gonna kick that little asian guy in the mouth" and started banging the pads regardless of whether he swept me or not.

I think it's something in the way my coach teaches, it's that Thai thing of "this is what I'm gonna do, and fuck you if you try to stop me" if someone catches your kick, just kick him again, his arms are gonna get tired eventually. I've seen a few coaches other than mine sweep, I'm pretty sure I've seen Saenchai do it.

I think its one of those things that sounds worse than it is, I think the energy when Thais do it is a lot more friendly than when a big western dude does it.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

;p;, Working on head movement?

Before I didn't get it in terms of techniques as I figured most will have a base, but one of the BJJ guys got injured and decided to try out striking; He asked some of us to "spar" with him, and after a session, I told him to not spar until he gets the basics down.

• He turned away and escaped by running out getting hit in the process
• Doesn't have a stance so even a light solid leg kick is nearly sweeping him over
• straight punches are hammer fist looking type slaps

Of course, the local toolbag took full advantage of it.

Turns out he did no striking, maybe 1 or 2 classes (padwork) in his life. Yeah definitely not open to this idea.

Also lol @ giving advice, I can see it though. Having a month in is more than 0 days, so he feels he's capable of doing so.

Gym heros are stupid. Partially I credit it to the coach. Letting them get away with it, and they continue it day in and out. It becomes a virus and starts to "infect" other members, and the end result you end up with a Chute Box type gym. I met one guy that counted his sparring record as an ammy record. Dude said he was 20-4 or something, so I thought he was a pretty exp. fighter. Then he says it was from sparring, and I immediately lost any sense of respect for the guy.

I do know that some gyms are smaller and can't afford to cut someone out because that's money out the door, but at what expense? If they're injuring everyone, esp. the newer members, those guys are going to leave.

I do hate gym heroes, but what's worse than going murder1 in sparring, is doing that in drills. The dipshit I mentioned in another post before. We were doing some sweep similar to a sacrifice throw but from seated guard. Guy couldn't get the technique right, got frustrated so he locked my neck with a guillotine grip, and hauled me over. That pissed me off, it could've gone wrong real bad, and I could've ended up really injured with something spinal.

Shit dude, that's fucked up. :| I hate people like that.

My sambo gym is a bit friendlier than that, the worst thats ever happened in mine was a guy jokingly took a dive when my buddy went to try his first double leg.

 

[mocimad3]

My coach does that to me sometimes, at first it made me nervous about throwing kicks, but eventually I got into the mindset of "Nah, fuck my coach, I'm gonna kick that little asian guy in the mouth" and started banging the pads regardless of whether he swept me or not.

I think it's something in the way my coach teaches, it's that Thai thing of "this is what I'm gonna do, and fuck you if you try to stop me" if someone catches your kick, just kick him again, his arms are gonna get tired eventually. I've seen a few coaches other than mine sweep, I'm pretty sure I've seen Saenchai do it.

I think its one of those things that sounds worse than it is, I think the energy when Thais do it is a lot more friendly than when a big western dude does it.

One time when I was still very new my instructor swept me while I was trying to do a teep to keep him away. Ended up hitting him in the balls with the side of my leg as I was flipping over sideways and I landed hard. Wasn't really much friendly energy in that exchange but was funny in retrospect and unintentional

 

[fluffball]

Blocking kicks with your arms = sooner or later broken arms. It's a last resort. It's better to block a kick with your arms than to get KOd, but it's better to block it with your shin or move out of the way.

 

[mocimad3]

in the future I'm going to tell anyone who tries to get me to use just my arms to block mid kicks that they are a moron. When the instructor told me to do I continued checking them instinctively and he forced me to drill using a arm block then claimed you can't check mid kicks more than once or so because you will get swept. I don't know a roundhouse kick is pretty brutal when you run into someone who knows what they are doing a broken arm is no good obviously. I can see taking shots to the arms if you are attempting to catch the kick but just blocking them with your arm should be last resort like you said

 

[j123]

Shit dude, that's fucked up. :| I hate people like that.

My sambo gym is a bit friendlier than that, the worst thats ever happened in mine was a guy jokingly took a dive when my buddy went to try his first double leg.

He's not there anymore, too much complains, and he had hygenie issues as well, so the head coach gave him the boot.

Wow. I've always thought ruskies were cray. Guess not all of them are.

Blocking kicks with your arms = sooner or later broken arms. It's a last resort. It's better to block a kick with your arms than to get KOd, but it's better to block it with your shin or move out of the way.

To be fair, I do block kicks every now and then, I do prefer moving out of the way and parrying if I can't make a check. I usually do this type of block

 

[mocimad3]

He got swept like a sack of potatoes in the opening seconds of that video. Wow did a spin and nearly caught himself with hand when he fell big no no. I think it's kind of cheeky to sweep people hard if they are throwing love tap kicks. It's so much harder to catch kicks with 16 oz sparring gloves on for me at least.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

He's not there anymore, too much complains, and he had hygenie issues as well, so the head coach gave him the boot.

Wow. I've always thought ruskies were cray. Guess not all of them are.

No lie, ruskies get a bad rap. The sambo gym has the best atmosphere of a gym I've been in, half the class don't even understand me but still are able to make jokes and do their damndest to explain a technique

 

[j123]

No lie, ruskies get a bad rap. The sambo gym has the best atmosphere of a gym I've been in, half the class don't even understand me but still are able to make jokes and do their damndest to explain a technique

I trained with a few russians and it was always
"if jhe bureaks his leg... it bureks, no problem"

Sambo's pretty cool though, its a shame we don't have more here. Dat judo + leg locks is GOAT

There's a Russian boxing gym around here, although small, any sign of gym heros pops up, they get the boot. I found that pretty interdasting, opposed to most smaller gyms trying to maintain their user base.

 

[Kframe]

I don't know how to explain it without visual aid. Ideally you want to block with your shin/knee. But if the kick is higher (something between high kick and mid), you need to have your arm blocking it. If you have your knee behind your elbow, it helps absorb the impact.

On the pic, its a high kick, so it's hard for him to have the elbow lower and in front of the knee...but if that was the case, it would be harder for the kick to "push" the arm since the leg helps. Now he only has the arm to stop the power...

How high do you lift the knee for checking body kicks though? None of the guys I trained with were particularly flexible so I never dealt with body kicks. However, I cant really get my knee above my waist, just not flexible enough I guess. I doubt I will ever be able to get my knee to reach my pecs, which would allow it to check all body kicks..

Unless there is something I am missing. Not sure how I could get my knee/shin high enough to check a shot aimed at the mid rib cage.

 

[j123]

How high do you lift the knee for checking body kicks though? None of the guys I trained with were particularly flexible so I never dealt with body kicks. However, I cant really get my knee above my waist, just not flexible enough I guess. I doubt I will ever be able to get my knee to reach my pecs, which would allow it to check all body kicks..

Unless there is something I am missing. Not sure how I could get my knee/shin high enough to check a shot aimed at the mid rib cage.

Some guys do it, but its definitely not common place. Most likely the knee comes to around lower rib

 

[sourdiesel209]

in the future I'm going to tell anyone who tries to get me to use just my arms to block mid kicks that they are a moron. When the instructor told me to do I continued checking them instinctively and he forced me to drill using a arm block then claimed you can't check mid kicks more than once or so because you will get swept. I don't know a roundhouse kick is pretty brutal when you run into someone who knows what they are doing a broken arm is no good obviously. I can see taking shots to the arms if you are attempting to catch the kick but just blocking them with your arm should be last resort like you said

You can also get swept while checking leg kicks, pretty much anything can get countered if your too predictable.

 

[ErikS]

There's no good protection for mid-kicks and not even low-kicks IMO. Have your feet pointing outwards and take it on the thigh -> Counter with right-hand or a kick of your own. Dangers are ofcourse that he could try to come closer and put more shin and weight behind it, defend against this by moving backwards and/or holding/pushing him to keep him at distance so that only the foot connects.

If you want to block(you should ofcourse train it, and use it, what I meant above is simply that it's IMO better to counter, you're not fighting to "play it safe". but everyone have different preferences ofcourse) this is how I would rank the possibilities:

1, man up and take it(not a good idea against power-strikers ofcourse and perhaps not possible for people with beta-male builds that already have very tight six-pack-abs) -> counter.

2 Shin/Check = Minimal damage but risk of being tripped/swept. Also risky against a high fight-iq fighter as he could put some real damage on the leg you now have 100% of your weight on.

3, Defend a kick coming on your left with your right hand to lower the impact. Make sure your left elbow/forearm doesn't get hit nor gets pushed straight into your ribs. Most important with this is to take the kick partly on your ribs/abs! Try to make your side(left arm + body) flat to his kick so the connect-area is as big as possible).

Your trainer is following western-standards/k1 standards. I've seen a dozen of foreginers coming to fight against Muay thai/Kun Khmer fighters though and get their arms totally demolished with such ease it is redicilous. If a good fighter notices you don't know how to take mid-kicks(that your arm is getting hurt or in risk of getting hurt) he will blast away and the fight will be finished before you know it..

What is preferable? A broken rib or a broken arm?


edit: To clarify why I put "take it and counter" as nr 1:

IMO, if he kicks.. and you're in range -> you've already lost that battle. You can be a great defensive fighter though and have your opponent get more hurt than yourself(some are great at this!) but overall if he is kicking and you're defending don't try to minimize the damage but instead try to capitalize on the fact that you are faster to counter than he is to follow-up!

 

[ARIZE]

Unless there is something I am missing.

Not really...It's just a flexibility thing, but it's a lot easier to achieve than high kicks for example.
When it's a higher kick, you got to hunch your back and be more compact, and that allows the knee to protect more of your body.

My knee comes about the middle of my pecs. I knew a guy with very long limbs, very flexible, who could "protect" his jaw when hunching down...

None of the guys I trained with were particularly flexible so I never dealt with body kicks.

Wow.. Are we talking about a MT/KB gym? Or it just happen to have a lot of beginners?