Chael Sonnen : Fabricio Werdum is reckless - it makes him dangerous, but also puts him at risk

[Pancake Sprawl]

i don't know if he'd lose to Nog, but he could definitely lose to Sergei back then fighting the way he does now. maybe he wouldn't approach it the same way but had he fought Sergei the way he fought Stipe, Sergei could've easily KO'd him too.

Sergei is no joke, especially his boxing.

 

[cambo78]

So in other words, he's pretty reckless?

See the words " striking can be"? Werdum's striking isn't "polished" but he normally has/had good head movement when his opponents attempted to counter. You're talking about a guy that stood with Vera, Silva, Nelson, Nog, Browne and Hunt and won. (Stood with Reem and held his own) Claiming a fighter is "reckless" means that they'll go for anything regardless of how ridiculous it is at that time. That's NOT usually Werdum.

 

[paci*FIST]

If you lay on your back and have to be stood up I can't award reckless status.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

Nog had better boxing and better chin than Werdum does now. All Werdum added is kicks.

Nog beat Werdum in most of the grappling exchanges in their first fight as well.

Prime Nog and prime Sergei have the sub defense and striking to beat any version of Werdum. I would give Werdum a chance but these guys are bad matchups for him.

 

[Megalodon]

He still does the running while punching thing that got him knocked out by Stipe.

 

[itheuser]

Nog had better boxing and better chin than Werdum does now. All Werdum added is kicks.

Nog beat Werdum in most of the grappling exchanges in their first fight as well.

Prime Nog and prime Sergei have the sub defense and striking to beat any version of Werdum. I would give Werdum a chance but these guys are bad matchups for him.

Nog and Werdum were around the same level in their first match. In their second match, Werdum's BJJ had actually improived a lot.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

Nog and Werdum were around the same level in their first match. In their second match, Werdum's BJJ had actually improived a lot.

Werdum came into MMA as a BJJ world champion. He won IBJJF world titles in 2003 and 2004. He was already the best BJJ guy in the world when he fought Nog in 2006 and Nog held his own grappling with him.

Werdum then won ADCC in 2007 and 2009 and got a silver in 2011.

By the 2013 rematch Nog was clearly past his best days with all his injuries, damage and it being his 44th fight.

They are both two of my favorite fighters. They both beat each other at different points of their careers. Both are great but I think a prime Nog's boxing, chin and pressure could always score a decision over Werdum.

 

[Arm Barbarian]

If you lay on your back and have to be stood up I can't award reckless status.

That's been years bruv.

 

[AdamantiumPimmel]

Chael doesn't know shit about PRIDE!
What big debate?
Werdum comes from PRIDE you idiot, he even had his first fight in PRIDE!

 

[Readybodisready]

I don't think todays Werdum would beat the versions of Nog and Sergei he fought in Pride.

Delusional fedor fanboyism. Todays Werdum would submit both in the same night.

 

[moreorless87]

Delusional fedor fanboyism. Todays Werdum would submit both in the same night.

Really? the Werdum who faced them was a BJJ world champ and ADCC champ less than a year latter,exactly how is todays Werdum better grappling wise? I'd say he's most likely significantly worse not having the same agility he did back then. He has more threat standing today but he'd still be at a big boxing disadvantage, indeed he was losing the boxing to a well past prime Nog in the second fight.

The threat of the takedown kept his opponents from really commiting offencively in 05/06, today I think they'd be able to and Sergei especially I'd pick to KO him.

 

[Irishhandbomb]

Finished my Tapology.

Werdum by Sub in rd 2.

Shit I haven't logged on to my tapology in ages.

Also, best av on sherdog..right on.

 

[Readybodisready]

Really? the Werdum who faced them was a BJJ world champ and ADCC champ less than a year latter,exactly how is todays Werdum better grappling wise? I'd say he's most likely significantly worse not having the same agility he did back then. He has more threat standing today but he'd still be at a big boxing disadvantage, indeed he was losing the boxing to a well past prime Nog in the second fight.

The threat of the takedown kept his opponents from really commiting offencively in 05/06, today I think they'd be able to and Sergei especially I'd pick to KO him.

We've had this exact conversation only a few weeks ago. You don't even recall because in the meantime you've been posting about the Pride glorifying propaganda 24/7 all day every single day. We're not gonna rehash this exact same topic again for several pages.

It's still a fact that Werdum has improved leaps and bounds in every single aspect of his MMA game including BJJ. You are too dumb to understand that BJJ competitions are not the same as MMA grappling with GnP added in. Werdum is lightyears ahead of what he once was, his ability to control guys in MMA both defending against GnP/if not using their GnP against them and his own ability to get top control, submissions etc. is on a much higher level now due to the many added years of training and evolving.

Facts like this terrify you, hurting you personally on a deep level as it shatters your nostalgic feelings of the inferior past.

 

[The guest]

Shit I haven't logged on to my tapology in ages.

Also, best av on sherdog..right on.

Thanks, man.

 

[MMonk]

Volkov will get the win.

Reach, timing, technigue... he'll blast Werdum , shrug the takedown and get the KO.

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

I can't stand Chael.
He's just trying to stay relevant.

He has a podcast and fights in the #2 Org so I would hope he's trying to keep himself relevant.


This isn't a very well thought out comment at all.

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

Volkov will get the win.

Reach, timing, technigue... he'll blast Werdum , shrug the takedown and get the KO.

Not if he looks like he did vs. Timothy Johnson, who he only beat by split and arguably won that fight.

 

[moreorless87]

We've had this exact conversation only a few weeks ago. You don't even recall because in the meantime you've been posting about the Pride glorifying propaganda 24/7 all day every single day. We're not gonna rehash this exact same topic again for several pages.

It's still a fact that Werdum has improved leaps and bounds in every single aspect of his MMA game including BJJ. You are too dumb to understand that BJJ competitions are not the same as MMA grappling with GnP added in. Werdum is lightyears ahead of what he once was, his ability to control guys in MMA both defending against GnP/if not using their GnP against them and his own ability to get top control, submissions etc. is on a much higher level now due to the many added years of training and evolving.

Facts like this terrify you, hurting you personally on a deep level as it shatters your nostalgic feelings of the inferior past.

Well you can stop with calling out bias to try and weigh your argument, we all know your posting history on the subject.

Again in terms of grappling I'm really not seeing much evidence of great advancement from Werdum, the version we saw in Pride showed the ability to threaten from his back and to control opponents. The more recent version grabbed a simple choke on a beaten up and gassed Cain going for a sloppy takedown and IMHO subbed an increasingly sloppy Fedor showing very poor judgement(although obviously a lot of skill from Werudm to capitalise but its not an opportunity Nog or Sergei gave him). He did not threaten Overeem from his back in the second fight when he enguaged and indeed he didn't threaten Hunt either. He subbed Nog but a declined and slow Nog totally unlike the 2006 version who indeed escaped a near identical position(not the sub itself but just before that when Werdum takes dominant position) in the first fight but was simply too slow do so this time. Indeed todays Werdum is also I think clearly slower than the version in Pride(albeit not as much as Nog was), that earlier version could threaten with takedowns, todays version can't get down for them anything like as quickly.

He's clearly become a more dangerous striking I'd agree adding a more aggressive MT game to his skill set and really this has been behind the majority of his success in recent years. What I would question though is if this would be enough to threaten the 2005/06 versions fo Nog/Sergei and honestly no I don't think it would whilst again as I said I think Werdum has shown weak boxing defence as evidence by his loss to Stipe. Todays Werudm in those fights would be forced to stand and exange more due to his declined wrestling and doing so I think his boxing weakness would be exposed even moreso than it was back then.

The idea that todays(or at least earlier 00's) Werdum might be the best version of him overall yeah that's something I can see even if I think its not clear cut. However I don't see a grappling advancement and I do see fights like those being potentially worse for him with the KO loss to Stipe being an obvious example. Earlier Werdum might not though have been so successful vs someone like Cain.

 

[savemgs]

 

[MMonk]

Not if he looks like he did vs. Timothy Johnson, who he only beat by split and arguably won that fight.

UFC jitters, first fight on the biggest stage.

He looked much better against Nelson and looked great against Struve.
Volkov is on the rise.

Werdum, on the contrary din't look that great aginst Tybura.
Looks like age and damage is catching up to him and he is declining.

Volkov is progreesing and going to be much more dangerous than Tybura in stand up.

Don't forget, he trains with K-1 GOAT Semmy Shilts!