Cenk Uygur Of The Young Turks: "The Media Is Outrageously Right-Wing"

[Lord of Lies]

The TYT melt down on election night was very entertaining.

 

[Not A Theist]

Technically true, but very misleading at the same time. The popular definitions of the Left and the Right, as they exist in the U.S., have veered away from the classical definitions of the terms quite drastically. When you hear rednecks and progressive types hurling the term "Left" and "Right" around, and even when the American media (at large) uses it, they are using it in a way which definitely doesn't match the classical European definitions of the Left and Right. By such a classical definition, the American media is indeed very Right in how it is constituted.

The problem with what Cenk is saying is contextual though. TYT, which butters its bread being a trained seal for that particularly pop-American notion of the Left and Right, strikes me as a particularly disingenuous when they suddenly drop some bold statement like this without acknowledging the stark contrast in political terminology. Simply put, the TYT lives, eats, and shits (most often the latter) the starkly Americanized version of the Left/Right divide. It's a symptom of this that I believe they would drop a statement like this without providing context for what I believe they're actually saying. The short version of that would be "Cenk is likely willfully confusing the versions of Left/Right to make a partisan talking point along the axis of the American Left/Right partisan divide."

 

[Jack V Savage]

Technically true, but very misleading at the same time. The popular definitions of the Left and the Right, as they exist in the U.S., have veered away from the classical definitions of the terms quite drastically. When you hear rednecks and progressive types hurling the term "Left" and "Right" around, and even when the American media (at large) uses it, they are using it in a way which definitely doesn't match the classical European definitions of the Left and Right. By such a classical definition, the American media is indeed very Right in how it is constituted.

The problem with what Cenk is saying is contextual though. TYT, which butters its bread being a trained seal for that particularly pop-American notion of the Left and Right, strikes me as a particularly disingenuous when they suddenly drop some bold statement like this without acknowledging the stark contrast in political terminology. Simply put, the TYT lives, eats, and shits (most often the latter) the starkly Americanized version of the Left/Right divide. It's a symptom of this that I believe they would drop a statement like this without providing context for what I believe they're actually saying. The short version of that would be "Cenk is likely willfully confusing the versions of Left/Right to make a partisan talking point along the axis of the American Left/Right partisan divide."

But the MSM is center right by any reasonable definition.

 

[SONNEN]

But the MSM is center right by any reasonable definition.

Ohh yes in what country is open boarders, free trade, and supporting Israel considered "right wing"?

 

[Not A Theist]

But the MSM is center right by any reasonable definition.

Yes, I'd say this is quite a fair statement. I'd respond by saying that the American notion of the Left/Right divide, in the popular sense I mentioned above, which drives a great deal of political dialogue in the States, isn't reasonable so much as it is politically expedient. For instance, twenty years ago open borders wasn't a Left-Right issue to nearly the same degree it was now, with both political and popular lines allowing for a lot of bi-partisan play. Now though? This is a starkly divisive Left-Right issue, as the American notion of Left-Right changes with the political winds.

My concern with Cenk saying that the MSM is firmly right leaning is that TYT's political axis, from what I know of them, usually moves along popular lines, not classical - so when he wants to use a classical definition without indicating that he is doing that it comes off as being disingenuous.

To clarify, my own thought is that I'd say the U.S. media is popularly Left and classically Right - the two really aren't mutually exclusive or, if they are, they are only so on certain issues. I would also guess that the majority of Americans care about the popular idea more than the classical definition. I do recall the last time we had a discussion you made quite a good point about how generally uninformed the American voting base was and that I was perhaps giving them a bit too much credit, and I think might be another facet of that.

 

[Daverisimo]

He's right, albeit for the wrong reasons because he's a fucking hack. Mass commercial media always has been, and always will be, on the side of capital.

The media is "neo-liberal". While they pander to the left in identity issues (in order to get left-wingers to vote neo-libs), they would never in a million years entertain their economic ideas. Pandering to the left's identity politics is as far as they will go, to accommodate them.

Exactly this. It's just part of a larger practice of liberals coopting, neutering, and repurposing ideas from leftists (generally against the left).

The thing is, there's a massive body of work, (both contemporary and historical) critiquing "identify politics" (though I don't really even like using the term since everyone seems to bring their own meaning to it) from the left. Unfortunately, Mark Fisher and Angela Nagle don't have Koch money propping them up, so most people are only privy to less nuanced, and IMO far less interesting critiques from the right.

Ohh yes in what country is open boarders, free trade, and supporting Israel considered "right wing"?

"Open borders" is mostly a buzzword, so I'll leave it alone, but free trade has been a massive part of the conservative agenda since at least the Reagan/Thatcher era, and the American religious right has always supported Israel.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

It's mostly center right and thank jebus it is.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Yes, I'd say this is quite a fair statement. I'd respond by saying that the American notion of the Left/Right divide, in the popular sense I mentioned above, which drives a great deal of political dialogue in the States, isn't reasonable so much as it is politically expedient. For instance, twenty years ago open borders wasn't a Left-Right issue to nearly the same degree it was now, with both political and popular lines allowing for a lot of bi-partisan play. Now though? This is a starkly divisive Left-Right issue, as the American notion of Left-Right changes with the political winds.

A little off topic, but the example is bad here, as open borders is not a real position in American politics in that there's no notable bloc that supports it (and FWIW, the largest of the insignificant blocs would be right-wing libertarians). But I understand the general point. There's nothing in the definition of the "right" or conservatism or religious fundamentalism or ethnonationalism, etc. that would to rejection of climate science. It's a politically expedient move by the right-wing *movement* in America. If you're saying that Uygur equivocates between the more-serious definition of "right" and the popular definition, I'm not sure that's true either.

I think the concept of "bias" is what is more confusing--that a lot of people would put his comments together and think that he means that the MSM is deliberately making up stories to help the GOP (just as many people here will openly admit to thinking that the MSM does that for Democrats!). In reality, bias is much more subtle than that, and plays out in the form of disproportionate fears of "bias" allegations that come from the political right, as well as some background assumptions that are more favorable to the ideological right (cynicism about the gov't, for example).

My concern with Cenk saying that the MSM is firmly right leaning is that TYT's political axis, from what I know of them, usually moves along popular lines, not classical - so when he wants to use a classical definition without indicating that he is doing that it comes off as being disingenuous.

I don't follow this guy, and I'm not impressed with what I see from him posted here (my experience--which may not be typical--would lead me to think that his audience is almost exclusively right-wingers hate-watching him).

To clarify, my own thought is that I'd say the U.S. media is popularly Left and classically Right - the two really aren't mutually exclusive or, if they are, they are only so on certain issues. I would also guess that the majority of Americans care about the popular idea more than the classical definition. I do recall the last time we had a discussion you made quite a good point about how generally uninformed the American voting base was and that I was perhaps giving them a bit too much credit, and I think might be another facet of that.

I think there's a general disconnect in that right-leaning rank-and-filers care a lot more about social issues than economic ones and left-leaning ones are the opposite, but that neither appreciates that about the other. The MSM, being mainstream by definition and urban-based, tends to be respectful of religion but not religious (and thus comes off as tone-deaf when the issue comes up) and dismissive of populist bigotries and resentments so the right sees them as left, but right-leaning on economic issues (and pretty much everything else) so the left sees them as right. Supporters of both "sides" are thus upset about coverage of what matters most to them.

 

[Seano]

Well, answer the man.

Why won’t Cruz debate him? And why won’t we read about the challenge tomorrow?

Why would Ted Cruz debate him?

 

[Brodels]

I fucking hate that fat loser dbag

 

[SONNEN]

10 minutes an hour on average was devoted to Oboma, 1/3rd of their programs are now devoted to bashing Trump... They are obsessed..

“Study: 91 percent of recent network Trump coverage has been negative”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...ent-network-trump-coverage-has-been-negative/

But the MSM is center right by any reasonable definition.