Catch Wrestling United II

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Boyd Ritchie said:
Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that it was copied from CACC. But attributing it to BJJ is not fair either. It existed in CACC before BJJ. That is all. There is nothing new under the sun. Things may be rediscovered but there is nothing new, especially in martial arts. I just get tired of BJJ copying things from other systems, and instead of saying we got this from so and so, they rename, claim they invented it, make some DVD's telling us how they are "developing it". enough. Example: Now there is a BJJ practitioner hawking his DVD on " developing the turtle guard". You want to learn how to use the 1/4 position offensively and defensively? Go find a catch wrestler. Not a wrestler but a Catch Wrestler. Freestyle and folkstyle wrestling came from CACC. like I said. enough. I hate forums and can't remember why I came back here in the first place. They don't accomplish anything but creating division and combat sports has enough of those.
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You said "before BJJ even existed to copy it and rename it." I interpreted that as suggesting that BJJ copied the technique from Catch and gave it a different name. I think that's the most logical interpretation of what you said. If you meant something different, then that's fine, I'll take your word on it, but I think me interpreting it in that way is far from putting words in your mouth.

I really don't think a lot of the things you said were called for by anything I said in my comment, and are completely unrelated. I feel like you're the one putting words in my mouth, because if you read my posts on this forum, you seem to have me pegged for the wrong type of person.
 
SuperSuperRambo said:
You said "before BJJ even existed to copy it and rename it." I interpreted that as suggesting that BJJ copied the technique from Catch and gave it a different name. I think that's the most logical interpretation of what you said. If you meant something different, then that's fine, I'll take your word on it, but I think me interpreting it in that way is far from putting words in your mouth.

I really don't think a lot of the things you said were called for by anything I said in my comment, and are completely unrelated. I feel like you're the one putting words in my mouth, because if you read my posts on this forum, you seem to have me pegged for the wrong type of person.
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If I misunderstood I apologize. Rough day today with what people would call haters. Im sure I overreacted and I am going to delete my post. Those who know me know that I strive not to offend or ever be hostile. God knows there is enough sabre rattling and lines being drawn in the sand between combat arts. It was truly out of character. I have a lot on my plate so I'm out of here and wish you all the best in your training.
 
Boyd Ritchie said:
post deleted.
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Well by that logic you Catchers stole everything from Ancient Hittite wrastlin' and you should pay tribute to them by building statues.

Also I doubt there is a catch wrestler out there with a superior turtle game to Telles, let alone a DVD.
 
Supereem said:
Also I doubt there is a catch wrestler out there with a superior turtle game to Telles, let alone a DVD.
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Please, don't start anyone off on this one. All I'll say is while there's not a specific 'turtle' DVD, the defensive position has been covered fairly extensively by non-BJJ guys that have shown some more of the finer points that with respect Telles misses in his set. Telles deals with how BJJ players typically try to attack his back, and this is covered as well as how wrestlers would attack the back for breakdowns and rides in material I've seen by Catch Wrestlers and Freestyle/Folkstyle Wrestlers. Telles also shows a couple of rolling leglocks which are typically seen more in Sambo.

I like that Telles is broadening the BJJ horizon, but he's definitely not an authority on the position when I've seen more extensive coverage of it. I think if you get stuck on bottom in MMA and there's seemingly no way out, his 'Octopus Guard' is a great way to protect yourself which is really just a modified armdrag/switch hybrid where going 'outer-gate' is a common principle in striking from East Asian arts or even slipping to the outside in Boxing if you will (which may have been influenced by Filipino fighters getting into Boxing decades ago.)
 
Hmm there seems to be alot of discussion about specific submissions/techniques originating from one art & another art "stealing" the former's move. I don't really concern myself over arts creating moves & another utilizing said move.

However, what does really annoy me is the fact that people who aren't knowledgable on grappling arts believe BJJ (besides wrestling) is the only grappling art around. I find that really annoying.....
 
Hi all,

as previously announced by KJ, we are delighted to inform you all that Coach Roy Wood will be holding regular seminars in 2 locations within the UK next month, the first seminar will be held at The Snake Pit in Wigan on Sunday 13th November and for those living in the south, the seminar will be held in Cardiff on Sunday 20th November, the spaces on these seminars are strictly limited and can be applied for by visiting:

http://www.snakepitwigan.com/

....and filling out the seminar application, these seminars are not open to just everyone, all seminar applications will be screened by our regional representatives to ensure we share the same values for our beloved sport, catch as catch can.

Keep our site bookmarked as we will be making several exciting announcements in the near future.

Please be sure to check out our Facebook page for more news on The Snakepit Wigan.

https://www.facebook.com/snakepituk

We look forward to meeting you on the mat.

Best wishes,

The Snakepit.
 
This will happen as long as people overidentify themselves with their sport. Suddenly a folk-style takedown is a ランダム日本語の単語 and nothing else, or short arm scissors are a bicep slicer. I think for us CACC-hipsters it's important to represent the heritage but also be open to new stuff and not be like "We did this before you even had a name for that." That's not really hipsteriffic though. It's really hard to invent anything, let's not act as if we did...

Also, Telles' DVDs on the turtle didn't do shit for me when I realized how often I got stuck in the position. There's a huge difference between his stuff and the CACC-based moves from there. It's of course nice that he changed the common opinion from "Oh noez, he is not lying on his back in a defensive position, he has already lost" to "Oh, now we will see if he's a super special grappling-clown and defends from there or simply already lost", but then again, that does still not mean, that people see turtleing as simple, legit move.

btw. I rolled in a gi for the first time last weekend and totally hated it.
 
Snakepit said:
Hi all,

as previously announced by KJ, we are delighted to inform you all that Coach Roy Wood will be holding regular seminars in 2 locations within the UK next month, the first seminar will be held at The Snake Pit in Wigan on Sunday 13th November and for those living in the south, the seminar will be held in Cardiff on Sunday 20th November, the spaces on these seminars are strictly limited and can be applied for by visiting:

http://www.snakepitwigan.com/

....and filling out the seminar application, these seminars are not open to just everyone, all seminar applications will be screened by our regional representatives to ensure we share the same values for our beloved sport, catch as catch can.

Keep our site bookmarked as we will be making several exciting announcements in the near future.

Please be sure to check out our Facebook page for more news on The Snakepit Wigan.

https://www.facebook.com/snakepituk

We look forward to meeting you on the mat.

Best wishes,

The Snakepit.
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Glad your on sherdog
 
Randy Couture, Frank Trigg and Neil Melanson demonstrate some amazing catch wrestling transitions from turtle position to single leg takedowns and some great scrabble techniques.

They really key on Turtle being offensive and need lots of movement to make it offensive.

 
Splatterbeast said:
Why? Because you couldn't use your sweat as an escape plan?
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Some people don't like the feel of a Gi. Plus not all Gi's are created equally. Some can feel like a suit of armor that limits your movements and makes you sweat like crazy. Others are lighter, more flexible and wick sweat away while allowing your skin to breathe.

As for the 'escape plan' jab, leverage is just as important in Catch as any form of wrestling or grappling and this isn't really the place for a Gi or No Gi argument (since there are other threads dedicated to it already, ad nauseum).
 
Splatterbeast said:
Why? Because you couldn't use your sweat as an escape plan?
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Its heavy, hot, claustrophobic and we don't know the grips, grip breaks or Gi chokes.

I have put one on a couple times and didn't really like it but could tell with some work i might love it.

When rolling with a brown last week i went to turtle to work on some stuff and he literally didn't have much to do.... he wanted the "baseball choke" i think but no grips, no gi means no luck.
 
Snakepit said:
....and filling out the seminar application, these seminars are not open to just everyone, all seminar applications will be screened by our regional representatives to ensure we share the same values for our beloved sport, catch as catch can.
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What does this mean exactly? As a BJJ player am I not welcome?
 
PointyShinyBurn said:
What does this mean exactly? As a BJJ player am I not welcome?
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On the contrary, we welcome seminar applications from people from all martial arts backgrounds, we simply want to get to know the people that wish to attend our seminars, these applications give us a snapshot of the individual and will assist us in bringing the right people in to our organisation, the application has nothing to do with the martial art you currently practice.

Kind regards

The Snakepit
 
Splatterbeast said:
Why? Because you couldn't use your sweat as an escape plan?
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Mine really limited my movements, the gripping is much different if you're used to overhooks and underhooks and I'm not used to all the gi-only techniques...
Plus, the gi-game of most people seems to be even more guard-centric than their no-gi game...
 
hey snapper heads

sit down, grab some corn

and

watch this


story of Karl Gotch (guest staring Yoshiaki Fujiwara)




 
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