International Catalonia's Rebellion: 170,000 Spaniards in Madrid March Against Amnesty Plan for Catalan Secessionists

Chindit said:
French Empire ? It was a monarchy.
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The Kingdom of France, who also ruled over many other countries in the vast French Colonial Empire, which makes them, quite literally, an Empire in the eyes of any colonists.

You can debate the semantics all you want, but at the time the American colonists think the French were very much still on the same level as the British Empire (despite the recent set-backs from the Seven Years War), and that is the point: The young United States recognized that it could never unilaterally achieve Independence from Britain, without the financial/political/military supports from someone who were more-or-less on equal footing with Britain, and that's why Continental Congress sent Benjamin Franklin to France, who managed to secure support for American Independence not just from the French ruling class, but also from the French public as well.

Fact: It's impossible to break away from a world power through open rebellion without the backing and recognition from another world power. Strange how leaders with common sense from 200 years ago quickly figured out how world politics works as they stood their ground and fought til the end, yet some dumb-ass leaders now still couldn't grasp that simple fact 200 years later as they quickly abandoned ship to seek refuge in another country and left their people to deal with the consequences. Even stranger still, there are idiots in this thread who actually thinks those two opposite groups of leaders are one and the same.

Quite frankly, the best support Puigdemont's government-in-exile could ever get from the Belgians is asylum, and even that is up in the air, since Belgium doesn't really want to piss off Spain.
 
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Note, I was saying that Catalonia NEEDS a leader in the mold of George Washington/Churchill/Leonidas

Their leader has fled to Belgium, I hope he knows what he is doing ...
 
WiolentOne said:
Americans remember this event. This is when an autonomous region exercised self-determination via the democratic process with an overwhelming majority, and in response, Spain is seizing control of the region, removing their government officials, and also discussing the takeover of their banks, police AND media (which they blame for the uprising).

And all with E.U. support
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are you trying to imply, all people have to do is get together have a vote and they can just take any land from whoever they want as long as they live there? ahahaha... they can pay with blood like everyone else... or they can bend their rebel knees and ask for mercy, and hope there true king gives it to them.
 
KillMeGod said:
are you trying to imply, all people have to do is get together have a vote and they can just take any land from whoever they want as long as they live there? ahahaha... they can pay with blood like everyone else... or they can bend their rebel knees and ask for mercy, and hope there true king gives it to them.
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If you're expecting him to know the background behind the American Revolution you're mistaken.
 
Goonerview said:
Note, I was saying that Catalonia NEEDS a leader in the mold of George Washington/Churchill/Leonidas

Their leader has fled to Belgium, I hope he knows what he is doing ...
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their has been a small diplomatic crisis, he's probably going to get deported if he seeks asylum.

apparently it's supereasy to deport people if they're EU citizens, lol
 
tonni said:
apparently it's supereasy to deport people if they're EU citizens, lol
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Well you must maintain freedom of movement even if the person in question might not actually want to move .
 
Catalonia crisis: Protests as eight ex-ministers held in Spanish custody
Nov 2, 2017

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Seven of the eight ex-ministers were pictured turning up to court together ​

Thousands of Catalans have protested against the detention of eight regional ministers sacked over Catalonia's push for independence from Spain.

The officials - who appeared in Spain's high court - are accused of rebellion, sedition and misuse of public funds.

Prosecutors are also seeking a European Arrest Warrant for ousted Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont, who did not show up in court and is now in Belgium.

The request also covers four other ex-ministers who ignored the summons.

Spain has been gripped by a constitutional crisis since a referendum on independence from Spain was held in Catalonia on 1 October in defiance of a constitutional court ruling that had declared it illegal.

Last week, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy imposed direct rule on Catalonia, dissolving the regional parliament and calling local elections for 21 December.

This came after Catalan lawmakers voted to declare the independence of the affluent north-eastern region.

The Catalan government said that of the 43% of potential voters who took part in the referendum, 90% were in favour of independence.

On Thursday, thousands of people gathered outside Catalonia's regional parliament in Barcelona.

Many carried Catalan flags and slogans that read "Freedom for political prisoners".

Similar protest rallies were held in other Catalan towns.

Political parties and civic groups in the affluent north-eastern region also condemned the judicial move

What happened in Spain's high court in Madrid?

Nine out of 14 summoned Catalan ex-ministers appeared before Judge Carmen Lamela.

She said they had to be detained because they might otherwise leave the country or destroy evidence.

Those who were held are:
  • Former Deputy Vice-President Oriol Junqueras
  • Former Interior Minister Joaquim Forn
  • Former Foreign Affairs Minister Raül Romeva
  • Former Justice Minister Carles Mundó
  • Former Labour Minister Dolors Bassa
  • Former Government Presidency Councillor Jordi Turull
  • Former Sustainable Development Minister Josep Rull
  • Former Culture Minister Meritxell Borras
The ninth official, ex-Business Minister Santi Vila, was granted bail at the request of prosecutors. He quit before the Catalan parliament voted for independence last Friday.

In addition to Mr Puigdemont, prosecutors have asked Spain's high court judge to issue European arrest warrants for the following Catalan officials:
  • Meritxell Serret, former agriculture minister
  • Antoni Comín, former health minister
  • Lluís Puig, former culture minister
  • Clara Ponsatí, former education minister
Five other senior members of the Catalan parliament, as well as Speaker Carme Forcadell, are facing the same charges but, because of their parliamentary immunity, their cases are being handled by the Supreme Court.

Their hearings have been postponed until 9 November.

How did Carles Puigdemont react?

In a statement broadcast on Catalan TV from an undisclosed location in Belgium, he described the detentions as "an act that breaks with the basic principles of democracy".

"I demand the release of the ministers and the vice-president," he added.

Mr Puigdemont, who was spotted in a Brussels cafe on Thursday, has said he will not return to Spain unless he receives guarantees of a fair trial. He did not specify his exact demands.

Belgium's federal prosecutor has said the law will be applied once an arrest warrant is received, according to Efe news agency.

Mr Puigdemont's lawyer said the climate was "not good" for him to appear in court, but he also said his client would co-operate with the authorities in Spain and Belgium.

Mr Puigdemont's handling of the crisis has drawn criticism among some other Catalan politicians, with left-wing parliamentary deputy Joan Josep Nuet criticising him for creating "yet more bewilderment".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41854248
 
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European Arrest Warrant issued for Puigdemont

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A Spanish judge has issued European Arrest Warrants (EAW) for sacked Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont and four of his allies who went to Belgium.

The five failed to attend a high court hearing in Madrid on Thursday when nine other ex-members of the regional government were taken into custody.

One of those detained has been freed on bail of €50,000 (£44,000; $58,000).

They all face charges of rebellion, sedition and misuse of public funds for pursuing Catalan independence.

Mr Puigdemont has said he will not return to Spain unless he receives guarantees of a fair trial.

Belgium will "study" the warrant, a spokesman for the state prosecutor told AFP news agency.

The regional parliament in Catalonia voted to proclaim an independent republic a week ago, following an illegal referendum on independence organised by the Catalan government on 1 October

No other country recognised the move and the Spanish central government moved swiftly to impose control, using emergency powers under the constitution.

Who faces extradition?

Mr Puigdemont was the president of the autonomous region of Catalonia until the proclamation of independence and continues to regard himself as the president of the newly proclaimed "Republic of Catalonia".

Mr Puigdemont and his colleagues travelled to Belgium to raise their case for statehood at the EU institutions and he insists he is not trying to evade "real justice".

He said in a Belgian TV interview aired earlier on Friday that he would co-operate with Belgian judicial authorities.

He also said that he was ready to run in snap regional elections in Catalonia next month.

The other four warrants are for:
  • Meritxell Serret, former agriculture minister
  • Antoni Comín, former health minister
  • Lluís Puig, former culture minister
  • Clara Ponsatí, former education minister
Will the warrants be acted upon?

The warrants were sent to Belgian prosecutors, who have 24 hours to decide whether the paperwork is correct.

If they do, they will forward them on to a judge who will decide whether Mr Puigdemont and the four others should be arrested.

Belgium has a maximum of 60 days to return the suspects to Spain after arrest. But if the suspects do not raise legal objections, a transfer could happen much sooner.

A country can reject an EU arrest warrant if it fears that extradition would violate the suspect's human rights.

Discrimination based on politics, religion or race is grounds for refusal. So are fears that the suspect would not get a fair trial.

There is an agreed EU list of 32 offences - in Article Two of the EAW law - for which there is no requirement for the offence to be a crime in both countries. In other words, any of those offences can be a justification for extradition, provided the penalty is at least three years in jail.

However, neither "sedition" nor "rebellion" - two of the Spanish accusations against the Catalan leaders - are on that list.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41865121
 
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The civil war was between fascist and communist. Fucking losers.
 
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