International Canada arrested Huawei's CFO per an American warrant

[NoDak]

Crazy

Tic, Toc.

Out of the Huawei's 92 main suppliers, 33 are US companies, including chipmakers Intel, Qualcomm, and Micron, and software firms Microsoft and Oracle, Tom Holland of Gavekal Research said in a note Friday.

"If Washington now prohibits these companies from selling to Huawei, the Chinese telecoms giant will struggle to survive," Holland said.

Such a ban, if enacted, would be catastrophic for the company — and would derail Beijing's plans to deploy 5G on a large commercial scale by 2020.

Remember how these things go?

China's second largest manufacturer of telecom equipment and the number four smartphone maker in the United States, ZTE, is on its way to shutting down after the US government banned the company from doing business with American component suppliers, including chipmakers Qualcomm and Intel, both of which it relied heavily on for parts used its smartphones. The company's future may now depend on an appeal to modify or reverse the 7-year ban.

The news was revealed in a press release which noted that, "the major operating activities of the company have ceased".

ZTE's English-language homepage has also been stripped of much of its content, including its online store, apparently signifying that the company's days are numbered, at least in Western markets.

 

[ElKarlo]

So this is very ZTE like? Good, having and using leverage is a good thing. Hope Trump is smart enough to get a good result

 

[NoDak]

So this is very ZTE like? Good, having and using leverage is a good thing. Hope Trump is smart enough to get a good result

The sounds of the tech war!



Yea, but per usual CNN dropped the ball with the vague details about Huawei suppliers which is why I didn't even bother directly linking those excerpts. Mainstream outlets suck at this, but it's just more of what I've been banging on relentlessly about for months and you're one of the very few to entertain the conversation, I appreciate that lol. Hopefully you've gotten some additional insight as to what the fuck is going on, it's at the core of the entire conflict.

To answer the question, Huawei has a much stronger chin than ZTE and is of far more importance to the CCP government (and ZTE is extremely valuable to them). They actually have their own budding semiconductor design unit HiSilicon but it outsources the manufacturing to TSMC and Taiwan is already on thin ice with the US over the Micron IP theft fiasco that involved UMC, another pure play foundry.

Not only that, but Huawei's computers run on Intel processors while mobile handsets are dependent on radio frequency units made by Qorvo. It's 5G base stations incorporate components produced by Xilinx while Texas Instruments provides the analog semiconductors for them. It also relies on Micron for the memory chips that go into their smartphones although they could feasibly switch to SK Hynix on that front.

 

[ShinkanPo]

So this is very ZTE like? Good, having and using leverage is a good thing. Hope Trump is smart enough to get a good result

I don't think Trump will bungle this up I do believe this is being carefully coordinated at the highest levels of the deep state.

Companies like ZTE,Huawawei,Alibaba has long been used China as their direct propaganda tool to entice countries to let them setup their system in their respective countries.

And its thru these Chinese investments they the CCP gains legitimacy by creating revenue and expanding their political clout across the world and the USA won't just let that happen its in the American attitude to compete its why your country gained so much power in the last 90 years even if some Americans that I know thinks America should stay out of world affairs and focus on US domestic issues there are still who believe that prosperity in the US domestic scene is perpetually linked to its ability to dictate global affairs and now its even an issue if the Americans are willing to concede that role to China.

China is not the modern Soviet Union its a different animal all together. China today is like the Ming Dynasty 2.0 and some think they are heading towards a neo colonialist platform.

 

[MicroBrew]

The CFO is trying to secure bail. If she gets bail she will definitely flee Canada or just walk into the Chinese embassy. If Canada grants her bail, it is because they want a way out of this controversy - due to pressure from China - figuring she will definitely flee town.

 

[The Merchant]

Everyone busts sanctions why acting in this manner at this time.

The worst Iraq sanction busters were American companies at the time.

 

[NoDak]

"Chinese officials have repeatedly said they don’t consider China's companies to be bound by other nations’ trade edicts"

What a concept. Sovereign nations adhere to their own policies not other countries.

Canada had a chance to do the right thing and not detain the CFO for Huawei but instead they did the bidding of the hegemonic giant.

They also don't consider themselves bound by the international trade agreements they sign.

Everyone busts sanctions why acting in this manner at this time.

The worst Iraq sanction busters were American companies at the time.

I doubt it's about the sanctions so much as sending a warning shot. The CFO of Huawei doesn't really matter when the corporation can just be folded altogether. From the sounds of it, there's going to be bipartisan legislation introduced to effectively do just that with a lot of pressure put on Trump, who I actually believe had no clue this was going on the same night he met with Xi in Buenos Aires.

 

[MicroBrew]

Here's hoping Trudeau does not cuck out to China's bluffing / bullshitting on "consequences".

 

[Orgasmo]

They also don't consider themselves bound by the international trade agreements they sign.

Like Americans with JCPOA or Paris Accord?

I doubt it's about the sanctions so much as sending a warning shot. The CFO of Huawei doesn't really matter when the corporation can just be folded altogether. From the sounds of it, there's going to be bipartisan legislation introduced to effectively do just that with a lot of pressure put on Trump, who I actually believe had no clue this was going on the same night he met with Xi in Buenos Aires.

Well that's a textbook case of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in the context of the executive branch. It doesn't nothing to assure the market. S&P 500 probably had at least 10% shaved off this year because Trump's trade policies.

 

[MicroBrew]

TOKYO — Japan’s government issued instructions Monday effectively banning China’s Huawei and ZTE from official contracts, while the country’s top three telecom operators plan to follow suit, Japanese media reported Monday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b31e98bd212a

This is good. More countries are banning the use of Huawei . Hope this development is a big hit for China's telecom firms. Huawei became what it is by stealing US and others' intellectual property. They still steal to the tune of hundreds of billions.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/japan-top-three-telco-firms-085500994.html

 

[NoDak]

Like Americans with JCPOA or Paris Accord?

Well that's a textbook case of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in the context of the executive branch. It doesn't nothing to assure the market. S&P 500 probably had at least 10% shaved off this year because Trump's trade policies.

I'm not sure what those items have to do with the way to conduct fair and competitive international commercial business. Why is China literally the only nation on this planet in which IP and trade secret theft is a profound issue? They haven't been innovative since gun powder. The US also hasn't left the Paris Accord and can't until November 2020, so it likely won't at all.

It's more a case of the "deep state" (defense intel community and possibly US tech firms) moving to influence policy. SIA doesn't mess around having their advanced manufacturing or bulk of their supply chains based out of that shithole police state. If you want to develop domestic capacity and compete for global market share in certain industries then fucking compete for it. Stop ripping off and undercutting everyone else's investment, research, development, innovation and output.

What do the Chinese and their western fanboys not understand about this?

 

[ElKarlo]

The sounds of the tech war!



Yea, but per usual CNN dropped the ball with the vague details about Huawei suppliers which is why I didn't even bother directly linking those excerpts. Mainstream outlets suck at this, but it's just more of what I've been banging on relentlessly about for months and you're one of the very few to entertain the conversation, I appreciate that lol. Hopefully you've gotten some additional insight as to what the fuck is going on, it's at the core of the entire conflict.

To answer the question, Huawei has a much stronger chin than ZTE and is of far more importance to the CCP government (and ZTE is extremely valuable to them). They actually have their own budding semiconductor design unit HiSilicon but it outsources the manufacturing to TSMC and Taiwan is already on thin ice with the US over the Micron IP theft fiasco that involved UMC, another pure play foundry.

Not only that, but Huawei's computers run on Intel processors while mobile handsets are dependent on radio frequency units made by Qorvo. It's 5G base stations incorporate components produced by Xilinx while Texas Instruments provides the analog semiconductors for them. It also relies on Micron for the memory chips that go into their smartphones although they could feasibly switch to SK Hynix on that front.

I hear ya man. It's hard to get around the technical aspects of all this. A lot of posters here are proud and don't like to admit that they don't know something. I have a basic understand of SC, but a lot is way over my head. Data centers too, only know about them via ownership in IBM and TXN.

Huawei is how dependent on US parts though? Can they survive a few months or could they get basically shut down like ZTE was? It seems that they need Intel and other mfgsers to basically make all their stuff still. TSMC is basically making their regular SC for them, so it seems they don't have a lot of options if they fight this?

 

[ElKarlo]

I don't think Trump will bungle this up I do believe this is being carefully coordinated at the highest levels of the deep state.

Companies like ZTE,Huawawei,Alibaba has long been used China as their direct propaganda tool to entice countries to let them setup their system in their respective countries.

And its thru these Chinese investments they the CCP gains legitimacy by creating revenue and expanding their political clout across the world and the USA won't just let that happen its in the American attitude to compete its why your country gained so much power in the last 90 years even if some Americans that I know thinks America should stay out of world affairs and focus on US domestic issues there are still who believe that prosperity in the US domestic scene is perpetually linked to its ability to dictate global affairs and now its even an issue if the Americans are willing to concede that role to China.

China is not the modern Soviet Union its a different animal all together. China today is like the Ming Dynasty 2.0 and some think they are heading towards a neo colonialist platform.

Well said man. China is indeed Ming 2.0. We and others need to deal with them in that vector. But too many bow down and just cover their heads instead of confronting China. Which I think is terrible.
Instead of military interventions, the US should have done what Trump is doing. Economically assult them into giving other companies a fair deal

 

[Orgasmo]

I'm not sure what those items have to do with the way to conduct fair and competitive international commercial business. Why is China literally the only nation on this planet in which IP and trade secret theft is a profound issue? They haven't been innovative since gun powder. The US also hasn't left the Paris Accord and can't until November 2020, so it likely won't at all.

It's more a case of the "deep state" (defense intel community and possibly US tech firms) moving to influence policy. SIA doesn't mess around having their advanced manufacturing or bulk of their supply chains based out of that shithole police state. If you want to develop domestic capacity and compete for global market share in certain industries then fucking compete for it. Stop ripping off and undercutting everyone else's investment, research, development, innovation and output.

What do the Chinese and their western fanboys not understand about this?

When US was a rising industrial power in the 19th century, Britain used to accuse it of being a copycat. Japan got the same treatment in the 1970's from US. This accusation of IP theft is nothing new and has been a repeating theme since the industrial revolution. FYI, China is the second largest spender on R&D in the world and probably will surpass US by next year.

If the Huawei executive is being arrested for an actual crime in Canada, then I would be okay with it. The fact of the matter is it's pure politics coming from American side, having unilaterally imposed sanction on Iran after abandoning the JCPOA. You know what capturing someone to force another party to give a certain concession is called? Ransom. Trump said trade wars were easy to win, but all he has to show for it so far is record trade deficit and a depressed stock market. He couldn't even get a trade truce with China to last for 72 hours. Have fun going after China, but leave Canada out of your shitty spat. We had enough from Trump ripping up NAFTA as it is, and we don't need another foe on the other side of the Pacific.

 

[NoDak]

When US was a rising industrial power in the 19th century, Britain used to accuse it of being a copycat. Japan got the same treatment in the 1970's from US. This accusation of IP theft is nothing new and has been a repeating theme since the industrial revolution. FYI, China is the second largest spender on R&D in the world and probably will surpass US by next year.

If the Huawei executive is being arrested for an actual crime in Canada, then I would be okay with it. The fact of the matter is it's pure politics coming from American side, having unilaterally imposed sanction on Iran after abandoning the JCPOA. You know what capturing someone to force another party to give a certain concession is called? Ransom. Trump said trade wars were easy to win, but all he has to show for it so far is record trade deficit and a depressed stock market. He couldn't even get a trade truce with China to last for 72 hours. Have fun going after China, but leave Canada out of your shitty spat. We had enough from Trump ripping up NAFTA as it is, and we don't need another foe on the other side of the Pacific.

I'm not talking about the colonial era of imperial world powers, Murica so evil did away with that shit and virtually invented the concept of rules based international free trade. It literally spawned the primary high tech industries it's rightly moving to protect but did nothing to deliberately hinder others from fairly competing for a slice of the pie. If it has, then someone needs to explain to me how the fuck South Korea holds 75% of the DRAM semiconductor segment, which is easily the largest today by global sales.

FYI the vast majority of China's R&D spending is plugged into late-stage development purposes, not the fundamental and applied research that spawns scientific discovery, new ideas and cutting edge technology which is something Xi has recognized in speeches on several occasions. The former is and should be part of an open global enterprise for the greater good and advancement of humanity. The world has stood to benefit greatly from the US turning it into a large scale, institutionally driven group endeavor.

 

[NoDak]

I hear ya man. It's hard to get around the technical aspects of all this. A lot of posters here are proud and don't like to admit that they don't know something. I have a basic understand of SC, but a lot is way over my head. Data centers too, only know about them via ownership in IBM and TXN.

Huawei is how dependent on US parts though? Can they survive a few months or could they get basically shut down like ZTE was? It seems that they need Intel and other mfgsers to basically make all their stuff still. TSMC is basically making their regular SC for them, so it seems they don't have a lot of options if they fight this?

The US could single handedly devastate their 5G ambitions which is already taking a beating from being shutout of various markets and potential client bases, although unlike ZTE it would probably take a little bit of leveraging geopolitical alliances (namely Taiwan and South Korea) to put Huawei completely out of business.

We talk a lot about telecom equipment and services giants Huawei and ZTE with their reliance on US semiconductor companies such as Intel, Qualcomm, Micron, Texas Instruments but far less discussed are the American SC materials and machinery firms like Applied Materials, KLA-Tencor and Lam Research which an export ban weaponizes to choke off China's ambitions to raise their own domestic SC industry. That's what ground Fujian Jinhua to a halt, and the same could easily be done with the two others the PRC touts as "national champions" but they haven't been charged with IP theft.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Yeah, this is an odd trend in which the US is using Canada as a middle man to stick it to the Chinese - i thought it was super odd this government halted the sale of aecon to chinese interest based on some very weird usage of the "national security veto' but green lit the sale of our only real space technology provider which is directly responsible for our national security monitoring satellites to a US company - was certainly a shock considering every previous government pushed against its acquisition by the US.

Now this?

 

[NoDak]

Yeah, this is an odd trend in which the US is using Canada as a middle man to stick it to the Chinese - i thought it was super odd this government halted the sale of aecon to chinese interest based on some very weird usage of the "national security veto' but green lit the sale of our only real space technology provider which is directly responsible for our national security monitoring satellites to a US company - was certainly a shock considering every previous government pushed against its acquisition by the US.

Now this?

I thought you guys were a "post-national" state?

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

I thought you guys were a "post-national" state?

Economically, our legs are spread to anyone with the cash to play. However, our previous government had the foresight to include a veto clause not to sell off companies directly involved in the sovereignty of our national security; Trudy was all like " US wants to buy the company in charge of all our surveillance and arctic monitoring satellites, NBD; China wants to buy a construction company - well, we have to ask the US first"

Note. Im not against the blocking of sale, just dont believe their reasoning.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Well said man. China is indeed Ming 2.0. We and others need to deal with them in that vector. But too many bow down and just cover their heads instead of confronting China. Which I think is terrible.
Instead of military interventions, the US should have done what Trump is doing. Economically assult them into giving other companies a fair deal

Chinese Money really flows, wasn't there an article how Chinese investment has creep in to Hollywood studios? It won't be long till they influence film making portraying the Chinese model of government as some viable alternative to US hegemony.

However in this article the author seems to downplay the possible effects of Chinese investment in the Movie industry but still this shows the extent they are willing to compete against the US and the West.

They are really playing the long game Sun Tzu's Art of War style . "Politicians can be bribed".



In the mean time a Chinese military officials calls for attacks against US ships traversing the South China Sea.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/south-china-sea-chinesenavy-ram-us-ships-2018-12

Chinese military officer calls for attacks on US ships in the South China Sea

• A senior Chinese military officer who spoke at a conference in Beijing on Saturday urged the Chinese navy to use force to counter US activities in the South China Sea.
• The People’s Liberation Army Air Force colonel commandant argued that the Chinese navy should ram US Navy warships that try to conduct freedom-of-navigation operations in “Chinese waters” in the South China Sea, Taiwan News reported.
• Such an aggressive action would certainly constitute an escalation after an incident in September in which a Chinese navy destroyer nearly collided with a US warship in the South China Sea.
  

tt

This is a very dumb statement by the Chinese officials and really is contrary to their proposed business model and interest Chinese President Xi a few months ago gave a speech in that he promises the that China will protect free trade among nations and its mission to increase productivity in the region and if not the whole world.

This leads me to believe that President Xi does not have the full political control over the military as their Military expansionism in the South China sea like setting up restrictive "identification zones" which obligates merchant shipping to abide by is in reality potentially disastrous to their economy if even a minor conflict arises.

•