Can Sherdog finally put "K-1 striking" myth to rest?

[JustinvR]

I remember Pat Barry saying that in MMA he has to slow down his striking because if you are going to do a long combo you will probably get taken down.

 

[randomg1t]

bob sapp beat hoost 3 times

no he didn't. he beat him twice.

and that doesn't mean shit anyway, hoost was well on his way out by that point. alistair's victory is legit, and if any of you actually bothered to look at his matches you'd know he fought like a fucking beast in those fights. but he is very inconsistent, and since he's been losing lately everyone assumes he always sucked.

K-1's recent tournaments haven't had the same depth as they did 10 years ago, but to say K-1 striking is a myth is just plain stupid. these guys focus on nothing but striking. of course they're better at it than someone that divides their training between striking, wrestling and jiu jitsu. it's common sense.

 

[Wayweary]

lol that performance was a complete joke technically because Alistair Overeem has NEVER been known for his head movement at any point in his career, and yet here he goes acting as if he's James fucking Toney just to humiliate Bigfoot (which I'm sure was intentional given all the smack he talked prior to that fight) despite showing basic technical failures in defense; for instance, nearly all of his slips/shoulder rolls did not feature the covering of the chin by the lead shoulder so he could have been nailed with a combination in the process of doing that (say a right hand to draw the slip followed by a stepping right hook) if Silva wasn't an awful striker who can basically only throw 1-2 lethargic strikes at a time and was not able to effectively exploit Overeem's dangling of his chin until the third round in their fight at which point he smashed him with a tremendous right straight, which provoked the fight-ending Tekken sequence.

Beyond this his attempts to duck punches were made redundant by his consistent failure to make any attempt to cover his chin with his hands (or... use a guard), and so Bigfoot actually began to try and draw Overeem's ducks and meet him with uppercuts which is simply not something a fighter like Bigfoot should be able to do to a guy who won the K1 Grand Prix, but there it was. Oh, and Reem also attempted his classic overhand with nothing in the way of a guard numerous times, and got clipped once or twice doing that as well.

Furthermore Overeem has never shown any great ability to slip punches or use basic defensive footwork such as lateral steps at any point in his career, even when competing at the highest level of kickboxing.

Simply put, the guy who destroyed Lesnar in a round was not at that fight. /shrug

What he was doing was working until he gassed.

 

[Kyoto**]

no he didn't. he beat him twice.

and that doesn't mean shit anyway, hoost was well on his way out by that point.

Well on his way out, so he consistently fought four more years after the fact (14 fights). Makes sense.

 

[BlizzardVeers]

how that changed the FACT that he beat one of the greatest kickboxers 3 times?

That's not a fact. It was twice, second time was a little sketchy on the Referee's part.

However, just because someone beats the better fighter, still doesn't make them a better fighter, and it really doesn't take much away from the better fighter's career.

How about the fact that old fat Ray Mercer KO'd Tim Sylvia, the most dominant UFC Heavyweight champion of all time (sofar)? UFC IS A SHAM.

 

[BlizzardVeers]

Well on his way out, so he consistently fought four more years after the fact (14 fights). Makes sense.

Cro Cop.
Roy Jones.
Mike Tyson.
Muhammad Ali.
Gary Goodridge.

Etc.

 

[Muppettoker]

as long as we can but the ncaa div 1 wrestler myth to bed

 

[Wayweary]

bob sapp beat hoost 3 times

One was a doctor's stoppage and the other was a bad ref stoppage that left Sapp so damaged he couldn't continue. Hoost took his spot and won the tournament. I believed you they'd fought three for some reason, but it wasn't true. They were supposed to fight a third time and Sapp bitched out.

 

[Kyoto**]

of course they're better at it than someone that divides their training between striking, wrestling and jiu jitsu. it's common sense.

Moronic logic. Training your striking alone doesn't doesn't in and of itself make someone better than the guy that's well versed in multiple skillsets. There's the factor of how much time is being spent training, natural abilities, and just being better at it regardless. Nonsensical statements shouldn't be concluded with "it's common sense."

 

[DarthChen731]

Yep, great credentials in one combat sport obviously mean "jack shit" in another combat sport in which your specialized field is a major part of. Genius.

 

[lfd0311]

Cro Cop.
Roy Jones.
Mike Tyson.
Muhammad Ali.
Gary Goodridge.

Etc.

Come on bro, don't try to act like Leon Spinks isn't a better fighter then Muhammad Ali

 

[Kyoto**]

Cro Cop.
Roy Jones.
Mike Tyson.
Muhammad Ali.
Gary Goodridge.

Etc.

Nice fail. Did Crop Cop, Jones, and Goodridge fight the caliber of opponents that Hoost did when they were "on their way out". Peter Aerts, Banner, Schilt, Bojansky, Schilt again....what a retirement party.

 

[BlizzardVeers]

Nice fail. Did Crop Cop, Jones, and Goodridge fight the caliber of opponents that Hoost did when they were "on their way out". Peter Aerts, Banner, Schilt, Bojansky, Schilt again....what a retirement party.

Jones definitely did. Cro Cop supposedly did in the UFC. Goodridge has just gotten crushed in the last few years.

And I suppose 20 years of fighting means nothing. At all.

 

[funksoulbrother]

Boxing > k1 > mma

Level of striking

Idk I think saki or buakaw would kick mayweather jr so hard in the thigh he would crumple up and cry

 

[Ughugh]

I was a huge fan of K1 back in the days before Hoost started fading and Semmy began winning titles. MMA killed it is the reality of the situation and it's so far down the pecking order these days that you'd have to be a complete idiot to compare the kickboxing champs of today with the talent in MMA or boxing.

 

[wandshocop]

Its moronic to say fighter x,y or z fought in K1 and didnt do well in mma therefore the level of k1 striking is over-rated.

People say K1 was better because if you actually watch it, you see with your own eyes that the level there is far far superior to the ufc.

This is exactly it...watch K-1 and you'll see without a doubt the level of striking is superior.

But when you put a K-1 guy in to fight mma he has to worry about tds and the distance is totally different. 2 different sports my friend.

 

[lfd0311]

its no secret that overeem has a bad chin n gasses easy.

vs browne he went all out n some refs would have stopped that fight.

then he just looked exhausted.

he could barely hold his hands up.

browne was spamming those telegraphed up kicks till he connected.

you seriously think if they fought in k1 browne would beat him with those kicks?

This is one of the most ignorant, uneducated posts I've ever read. Just a collection of total mish-mashed garbage. Overeem was far from gassed. He hit Browne with a nasty 2 or three punch combination and a knee about 20 seconds before the fight ended. On top of that, Browne was far from "spamming telegraphed up kicks till he connected". He was throwing that kick to the body over and over agian to get Overeem to lower his hands. He then throws the kick the same way, only to the head, and hurt Overeem badly. Go back and watch Overeem's reaction to the kick. He drops his hands in towards his body and brings his forearms and bodyweight down as if to defend a body kick and brings his face right into Browne's foot. Browne set that kick up and executed it beautifully. To try to explain that away as simply gassing and a bad chin is disrespectful not only to Overeem, but it disrespects the skill Browne displayed in setting up the finish.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Kickboxing and boxing with MMA gloves isn't an exact science.
A big strong guy with average striking can KO a standup fighting champ, it's possible. A single strike takes a split second to happen.
A big strong guy getting a sub, even on a gassed/hurt grappling champ, is highly unlikely, because of the steps involved in securing a sub.

The "better" guy CAN actually get KO'd for a few different reasons.

1. Cardio: the better standup fighter can fade and lose via embarrassing TKO
2. A single mistake: the better standup fighter can make a single miscalculation which costs them the fight in a split second.
3. Luck of where blows land: with those tiny gloves on, millimeters count. Tiny amounts of space that can't be calculated by any human being, but can easily get them KO'd. A few millimeters of stepping either way can make a HUGE difference, a few millimeters of head movement can be life or death, and the randomness of how punches land on the human moving target can yield drastically different results each time.

These factors don't even consider other more obvious factors, such as MMA being an entirely different sport in the standup aspect than kickboxing, the clinch, the cage, the threat of the TD, etc.

 

[Kyoto**]

Jones definitely did. Cro Cop supposedly did in the UFC. Goodridge has just gotten crushed in the last few years.

And I suppose 20 years of fighting means nothing. At all.

Depends when you think he fell off. Cro Cop conveniently fell off right when he joined UFC, which was right after he won in Pride. Perhaps guys were just better in UFC all along?

And.Here.We.Go!

 

[BlizzardVeers]

This is one of the most ignorant, uneducated posts I've ever read. Just a collection of total mish-mashed garbage. Overeem was far from gassed. He hit Browne with a nasty 2 or three punch combination and a knee about 20 seconds before the fight ended. On top of that, Browne was far from "spamming telegraphed up kicks till he connected". He was throwing that kick to the body over and over agian to get Overeem to lower his hands. He then throws the kick the same way, only to the head, and hurt Overeem badly. Go back and watch Overeem's reaction to the kick. He drops his hands in towards his body and brings his forearms and bodyweight down as if to defend a body kick and brings his face right into Browne's foot. Browne set that kick up and executed it beautifully. To try to explain that away as simply gassing and a bad chin is disrespectful not only to Overeem, but it disrespects the skill Browne displayed in setting up the finish.

Exactly. The defense of Overeem in the post you responded to was ridiculous. Browne KO'd Overeem, who was fresh, and who had just beaten his ass relentlessly. Browne faked that kick so many times in that fight, and setup the front kick to the face perfectly.