Law California Is Now Officially A Sanctuary State For All Illegal Immigrants

[Toothless King]

As a law enforcement officer at the state level, I don’t understand how any law enforcement agency could willfully disregard an ICE retainer. I understand not wanting to be involved in doing their job for or with them, but if you already have someone in custody and they ask you to continue to hold them and you disregard that it’s just disgusting. Now instead of just picking up a custody the ICE agents must spend more money and manpower to put themselves and community members in harm’s way to reapprehend someone you just had in custody. What’s the sense in that?

That, plus no more multi-million dollars contracts between local county sheriffs and ICE.

all to protect undocumented immigrant inmates who broke federal immigration law and california criminal law?

It's neither a common sense policy or public safety policy. It's a 'fuck you Trump' policy.

 

[hillelslovak87]

That, plus no more multi-million dollars contracts between local county sheriffs and ICE.

all to protect undocumented immigrant inmates who broke federal immigration law and california criminal law?

It's neither a common sense policy or public safety policy. It's a 'fuck you Trump' policy.

I'm quite disgusted with the regressive policy of "Fuck federal law!!" promoted by the left. The irony seems to have reached escape velocity, considering all the confederacy shit that animated 2017.....

 

[Arkain2K]

I covered the resources issue earlier, there's more collaboration, official and unofficial, between ICE and local LEO's than just the detainment and I doubt that you're billing ICE for all of it.

I think the root of the problem here is that you're the only one who actually bought into the idea that this new ban on collaboration/cooperation between local law enforcement officials with the Federal government is a legitimate fiscal issue rather than political posturing from Sacramento.

California politicians in the "Fuck the Federal immigration laws" camp have never been able to provide any evidence for these so called "costs" or "burdens" that haven't been reimbursed by the Feds aside from the vague buzzwords in their speech, because there isn't any. Nobody is stupid enough to work for free, and California's sheriff departments gets paid tens of millions every year by the Federal government to help upholding immigration laws.

For example, here's what my County think about the "costs savings" to their department thanks to the new bill, versus what the Democratic politicians in Sacramento think:

Orange County sheriff: California bill could cost department $26 million contract

Orange County Sheriff Sandra Hutchens has warned that her department could lose its $26 million federal contract to house immigrant detainees under a state bill aimed at restricting local police from aiding federal authorities in enforcing immigration laws.

Senate Bill 54, also known as the California Values Act, by state Sen. Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles, won approval from the state Senate on Monday, April 3, and is headed to the Assembly.

Orange County’s contract with Immigration and Customs Enforcement represents 5 percent of the department’s $520 million in revenue this fiscal year.

“Without this agreement, our budget will be significantly compromised,” Hutchens said in a March 3 letter to state Sen. Pat Bates, R-Laguna Niguel.

Bates issued a statement Monday claiming that Orange, Contra Costa, Yuba and Sacramento counties, which have contracts to house ICE detainees, might have to pull deputies off the street to balance their ledgers.

“These counties may have little choice but to lay off sheriff’s deputies, which would endanger citizens and immigrants alike,” Bates said.

De Leon, however, said the bill will actually save money for most local departments.

“Our precious local law enforcement resources will be squandered if police are pulled from their duties to arrest otherwise law-abiding maids, busboys, laborers, mothers and fathers. Trust will be lost. Crimes will go unreported for fear of deportation,” he said in a statement.

The bill bans local law enforcement from using their resources to investigate, detain or arrest persons for immigration reasons.

“If passed, SB 54 puts local law enforcement in the unenviable position of being in conflict with federal law,” Hutchens countered. “Sheriffs across California will have to choose whether to honor current agreements with the federal government or violate California law.”

Hutchens and Bates stressed that they agree local authorities should not enforce federal immigration laws. But sometimes the missions of local law enforcement and ICE intersect, they said.

“California’s public safety agencies interact with the federal government to protect the public,” Bates said. “SB 54 is not needed. It would lead to dangerous individuals falling through the cracks and being let out on the streets when they should have been deported instead.”

Hutchens explained that the Orange County jail notifies ICE when an undocumented immigrant is in custody for a serious crime, ranging from murder to driving under the influence. In 2016, 391 immigrant inmates in Orange County were reported to ICE.

“These offenders pose a significant risk to our communities and removing them is consistent with the department’s mission to enhance public safety,” Hutchens wrote.

De Leon, however, said jailed immigrants can still be reported to ICE under the bill.

“No one wants dangerous or violent criminals roaming our streets. The California Values Act allows state and local law enforcement to notify Immigration and Customs Enforcement before violent or dangerous criminals are released from incarceration and allows their transfer into federal custody for deportation,” de Leon said in a statement. “But Californians will not squander their precious public safety dollars to separate mothers from their children, to detain DREAMERS, or to deport honest, hardworking people who are so critical to our economy.”

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/04/...ll-could-cost-department-26-million-contract/

As usual, each law enforcement department in California can name exactly the number that they will lose due to this bill, and Kevin de Leon offered nothing but buzzwords in the rebuttal. Which is actually very similar to your current debate with @Toothless King: rich in fancy text, but unfortunately very poor in hard financial numbers to back it up.

Kevin de Leon can't name how much of California's public money was "squandered" when each local sheriff departments still have a multi-million dollars contract with ICE, or how much of "California's precious public dollars" his bill will "save" each fiscal year for each department now that their multi-million dollars contracts are voided. Because there simply isn't any.

If you can actually help @Toothless King pin-point what those imaginary unpaid budget costs incurred to his police department while working with the Federal government, and exactly how much are somehow passed on to California tax-payers each year instead of reimbursed by ICE, feel free to post it up, cause the politicians in Sacramento sure as hell can't offer anything when law enforcement all across the State are calling bullshit on his "cost savings" claims.

 

[Toothless King]

@Arkain2K

My agency held ICE detainees for YEARS way before anyone heard of Trump.

Now all of the sudden Trump is the POTUS and @panamaican and liberal California politicians in Sacramento are claiming "cost savings" if Cali law enforcement agencies void ICE's contract?

ROFL

 

[panamaican]

@Arkain2K

My agency held ICE detainees for YEARS way before anyone heard of Trump.

Now all of the sudden Trump is the POTUS and @panamaican and liberal California politicians in Sacramento are claiming "cost savings" if Cali law enforcement agencies void ICE's contract?

ROFL

I never claimed cost savings. I said that the state is subsidizing the federal government by allocating state resources to a strictly federal law.

 

[Toothless King]

I never claimed cost savings. I said that the state is subsidizing the federal government by allocating state resources to a strictly federal law.

can you name "state resources"? be more specific and less buzzwords

also, county and city law enforcement agencies don't operate on state's budget. we are not CHP. This sanctuary law affects county law enforcement than anyone else because they are running county jails.

 

[panamaican]

I think the root of the problem here is that you're the only one who actually bought into the idea that this new ban on collaboration/cooperation between local law enforcement officials with the Federal government is a legitimate fiscal issue rather than political posturing from Sacramento.

California politicians in the "Fuck the Federal immigration laws" camp have never been able to provide any evidence for these so called "costs" or "burdens" that haven't been reimbursed by the Feds aside from the vague buzzwords in their speech, because there isn't any. Nobody is stupid enough to work for free, and California's sheriff departments gets paid tens of millions every year by the Federal government to help upholding immigration laws.

For example, here's what my County think about the "costs savings" to their department thanks to the new bill, versus what the Democratic politicians in Sacramento think:

Orange County sheriff: California bill could cost department $26 million contract

As usual, each law enforcement department in California can name exactly the number that they will lose due to this bill, and Kevin de Leon offered nothing but buzzwords in the rebuttal. Which is actually very similar to your current debate with @Toothless King: rich in fancy text, but unfortunately very poor in hard financial numbers to back it up.

Kevin de Leon can't name how much of California's public money was "squandered" when each local sheriff departments still have a multi-million dollars contract with ICE, or how much of "California's precious public dollars" his bill will "save" each fiscal year for each department now that their multi-million dollars contracts are voided. Because there simply isn't any.

If you can actually help @Toothless King pin-point what those imaginary unpaid budget costs incurred to his police department while working with the Federal government, and exactly how much are somehow passed on to California tax-payers each year instead of reimbursed by ICE, feel free to post it up, cause the politicians in Sacramento sure as hell can't offer anything when law enforcement all across the State are calling bullshit on his "cost savings" claims.

Subsidize the federal government with state resources. If ICE hired and trained more officers to duplicate the state LEO presence and built and staffed their own detention centers, it would cost them more than what it costs them to pay the state to do it instead.

They are subsidizing the federal government. That does not mean it is costing California money, it is saving the federal government money.

 

[panamaican]

can you name "state resources"? be more specific and less buzzwords

also, county and city law enforcement agencies don't operate on state's budget. we are not CHP. This sanctuary law affects county law enforcement than anyone else because they are running county jails.

Sure, I did earlier - LEO's, jails, police cars, gas, etc.

Sure, county and city don't operate on state budget's but it's easier than typing "state, county, and city" every single time. You know what I've meant and I know what you've meant so far.

 

[Toothless King]

Subsidize the federal government with state resources. If ICE hired and trained more officers to duplicate the state LEO presence and built their own detention centers, it would cost them more than what it costs them to pay the state to do it instead.

They are subsidizing the federal government. That does not mean it is costing California money, it is saving the federal government money.

what the....?!!


there are no "state" LEO working in county jails. there are only deputies (county law enforcement) working in county jails. those deputies are paid by their county, not the state.

 

[Toothless King]

Sure, I did earlier - LEO's, jails, police cars, gas, etc.

Sure, county and city don't operate on state budget's but it's easier than typing "state, county, and city" every single time. You know what I've meant and I know what you've meant so far.

huh? those ICE detainees are already in county jails for committing a California criminal penal code. Now they are waiting in county jail on ICE's dime waiting to get picked up by ICE.

do you mind if I ask about your law enforcement experience again?

 

[panamaican]

what the....?!!


there are no "state" LEO working in county jails. there are only deputies (county law enforcement) working in county jails. those deputies are paid by their county, not the state.

Jeez you know exactly what I mean but I'll satisfy the semantics debate "non-federal employees".

Subsidize the federal government with state resources. If ICE hired and trained more officers to duplicate the non-federal employee presence and built and staffed their own detention centers, it would cost them more than what it costs them to pay the various municipalities to do it instead.

They are subsidizing the federal government. That does not mean it is costing California and it's various municipalities money, it is saving the federal government money.

Is that better?

 

[panamaican]

huh? those ICE detainees are already in county jails for committing a California criminal penal code. Now they are waiting in county jail on ICE's dime waiting to get picked up by ICE.

do you mind if I ask about your law enforcement experience again?

Sure, I worked as a lawyer in my city's law department which defended law enforcement officers when litigation was brought against them and the city by the public.

 

[Toothless King]

Jeez you know exactly what I mean but I'll satisfy the semantics debate "non-federal employees".

Subsidize the federal government with state resources. If ICE hired and trained more officers to duplicate the non-federal employee presence and built and staffed their own detention centers, it would cost them more than what it costs them to pay the various municipalities to do it instead.

They are subsidizing the federal government. That does not mean it is costing California and it's various municipalities money, it is saving the federal government money.

Is that better?

My county lost 5 millions dollars to ICE contract. Who's exactly subsidizing who?

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/...n-jail-contract-despite-pleas-from-advocates/


also, ICE do have their own holding facilities all over the country but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about undocumented immigrant felons who were apprehended by state/county/city law enforcement for committing a California criminal penal code and waiting in county jail to get picked up by ICE.

 

[Toothless King]

Sure, I worked as a lawyer in my city's law department which defended law enforcement officers when litigation was brought against them and the city by the public.

yeah, and I'm the Pope.

 

[panamaican]

My county lost 5 millions dollars to ICE contract. Who's exactly subsidizing who?

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/...n-jail-contract-despite-pleas-from-advocates/


also, ICE do have their own holding facilities all over the country but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about undocumented immigrant felons who were apprehended by state/county/city law enforcement for committing a California criminal penal code and waiting in county jail to get picked up by ICE.

I'll repeat myself - if ICE spent their own money to duplicate the non-federal employee presence and to build and staff their own detention centers, it would cost ICE more money than what they are paying the state and it's municipalities to do it for them. That's why ICE is paying you to do it, because it's cheaper and easier than fully funding it themselves.

Thus, the state and the various municipalities are subsidizing ICE. You are saving them money.

 

[Toothless King]

Jeez you know exactly what I mean but I'll satisfy the semantics debate "non-federal employees".

actually, I don't know what you mean.

State LEOs are also known as CHP, not county sheriff or city cops.

surely someone with "i'm lawyer in my city's law department which defended law enforcement officers" would know that, right?

 

[panamaican]

yeah, and I'm the Pope.

You asked. I'm not claiming that this is my current area of practice because it's not. I haven't done anything in this area for a decade at this point so I'm certainly no expert. But I'm not completely inexperienced either. As I'm sure you know, your law department defends all of the municipal entities - the police, the fire department, the public transportation systems, etc.

 

[panamaican]

actually, I don't know what you mean.

State LEOs are also known as CHP, not county sheriff or city cops.

surely someone with "i'm lawyer in my city's law department which defended law enforcement officers" would know that, right?

It's CHP in California but this subject is broader than just California. It's about the basic intersection of federal and non-federal law in regards to immigration.

 

[Toothless King]

I'll repeat myself - if ICE spent their own money to duplicate the non-federal employee presence and to build and staff their own detention centers, it would cost ICE more money than what they are paying the state and it's municipalities to do it for them. That's why ICE is paying you to do it, because it's cheaper and easier than fully funding it themselves.

Thus, the state and the various municipalities are subsidizing ICE. You are saving them money.

I still don't get your logic.

so I, a city cop, arrest someone for theft/burglary/assault etc., book him into county jail for processing, our ICE DRO liaison processes him for immigration status, notify ICE to pick him up from county jail to an ICE detention facility waiting for deportation. Essentially it's a prisoner transfer, but with new sanctuary law there is no more prisoner transfer. ICE officers and agents have to go to this guy's neighborhood to kick down his door.

what's "if ICE spent their own money to duplicate the non-federal employee presence and to build and staff their own detention centers" going to do in this situation?

 

[HunterSdVa29]

how many dishwashers and gardeners do we need?
I understand the reasoning behind this (votes, lets be real), but do they actually expect no Federal block grants to be cut over this?

it's a weird situation to be in a state w/ the highest taxes (income, gas, tobacco) that also panders to the poor and unskilled. It also starts to make more sense why people leave this state, b/c if you actually earn your own keep i'm not seeing the actual benefits from any of these taxes. Literally, not a single benefit. Roads? mad shitty County Services? disgusting Job growth? nonexistent