California dam RIP

[Broken arrow]

You are thinking in to narrow a view if you think progressive liberalism is to blame for America's 12 decades of downward spiraling. And yes, I do know what made america great, historical and geographical luck. They did well to start fresh with the political and legal mechanisms that they adopted from the English and others, but their independence had more to do with England not having the power or will to control the continent by proxy's who opted to take it all for themselves. It wasn't about nobility it was about wealth and power. It could be argued that America would have been greater without independence. They sure as hell proved to as corrupt, (Tammany Hall anyone?). Besides how the fuck did America end up being so ass backwards all through the 30's, Good thing the war came along to set you back up again on your feet, that and the 10's of millions non-Americans that died for you while your industry was safe on the other side of the world. You guys came out with all the infrastructure and civil society intact. You guys sucked up all the spoils of war and were the only one's in a position to capitalize on the short comings of others. Throw in the Nuke, and you guys then started a campaign of domination, and propelled it upon a false narrative of the red scare. The war got you addicted to power and "spreading freedom" good job. As you can tell by the hatred much of the world directs your way, you may get the sense that we are not buying into your fairy tale of American exceptionalism. You would have had more credibility if you would have lead by example and let others have the freedom to determine their own fate within their borders. But it's not about freedom and democracy when you constantly interfere in others country's business, it's about money and power.

You will live long enough to see I am right.

Your people aren't "special" people are people all over the world. And right now your people are on their last gasp, they just don't know it yet. Your America suffers from the same arrogant shortsightedness that all other empires before it did. There is nothing that makes you different from this fate. They come and they go.

Cliffs bro?
I'm not reading that wall of text

 

[Cold Front]

Indeed, and some men want to preserve nature, others dont, so its a give and take, some Californians appreciate the outdoor beauty of their state and they dont want it to become like those cities in Judge Dredd. So they fight tooth and nails about exploitation of natural resources to benefit the excess of a city dwelling elite or export cash crops.

You're not listening. No one preserves nature. Environmentalists create a different nature from the past. It's an idealized version created by men who don't much like nature as it really is.

You are not killing it, if you force them to get their water elsewhere, you are simply forcing them to pay more for it.

The state needs more cheap water, not less. Water is a public good. There is no market mechanism to determine a fair cost. The men who developed Palm Springs did so with the knowledge that water would be provided by a state which was determined to develop California.

If you want to change the bargain now, that's fine, but don't do so dishonestly with the untrue argument based on artificial scarcity and an idealized version of nature.

 

[Exi]

Cliffs bro?
I'm not reading that wall of text

I don't tweet.

 

[MicroBrew]

have you ever seen the price for asbestos removal? High voltage work? Roofing work? Basically, anything that is high risk will incur a significant hike in price. Very likely each worker on the project will have to get paid prevailing wages as well. High regulations = costly workers + prevailing wages, it wont be cheap.

All that taken into account you are still talking 100-200 million to plug that gap.

I do think it is ridiculous overcharging , and will continue unless someone high up says no. Look what Trump did to the Boeing AF1 contract. He threatened to cancel the order , which led to Boeing ceo bringing the price down. So that right there says the price was bloated initially. There are certain equipment vendors who sell to the government and major corps. ; they overcharge the price of their products because they know they can get away with it. The overcharging is evident when you compare how much they sell the product to the consumer vs. the government and when you compare what they charge for said product vs. the price most others charge for it.

 

[xcvbn]

It's now been 3 days since Jerry Brown cried Uncle. No response from the White House yet.

IMO, he's probably letting foolish Brown sit on hot coal for a bit before swooping in like an Orange Knight in shiny armor. Can't really do shit if rain continues to pours down this month though, "the highest dam in America" is fucked.

Meanwhile, we have our inflatable ducky ready, hundreds of miles away in SoCal

Ironically Jerry Brown was governor in the early 80s and halted new dam production...but that's no excuse to leave 200k people in limbo(mostly Trump supporters I might add- the mayor of Oroville says that "rain comes from God", the city's congressional representative is a Republican for fuck's sake, and their state senator showed up to the evacuee shelter wearing Wrangler's and a fucking flannel....)

Brown does need to go away(especially after the corruption of the SoCal gas leak) but Trump needs to give relief to the displaced people and the DWR. Letting the whole valley flood will absolutely devastate the entire country due to California's massive(80%) production of the nation's fresh produce. Everyone can say hello to $50/gal milk and millions of starving people if the worst case scenario takes place.

 

[xcvbn]

All that taken into account you are still talking 100-200 million to plug that gap.

I do think it is ridiculous overcharging , and will continue unless someone high up says no. Look what Trump did to the Boeing AF1 contract. He threatened to cancel the order , which led to Boeing ceo bringing the price down. So that right there says the price was bloated initially. There are certain equipment vendors who sell to the government and major corps. ; they overcharge the price of their products because they know they can get away with it. The overcharging is evident when you compare how much they sell the product to the consumer vs. the government and when you compare what they charge for said product vs. the price most others charge for it.

They need to turn that entire hillside into a giant concrete slab- within 6 months after the snow melt. They'll have to have crews working 24/7 to get it done in that time span.

 

[xcvbn]

Ruh-roh...

California dam managers dismissed flood concern 12 years ago

Feb 13, 2017 4:24 PM
Environmental activists and local government officials warned more than a decade ago about the risk of catastrophic flooding below a major Northern California dam - the very scenario that threatened to unfold over the weekend, forcing the evacuation of nearly 200,000 people downstream.

State and federal regulators dismissed those fears at the time, saying they were confident the hillside that helps hold back billions of gallons of water was stable and did not need to be reinforced with concrete.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/235557332-story

Who always shits down environmentalists' throats? Republicans

And who has been in charge of the state since that time? Democrats

When will the vast majority of you people stop blaming the other side when they're both absolutely shit.

 

[xcvbn]

The problem is they need it down 30' at least and for it to stay that low to keep water pressure from pushing the emergency spillway wall against the hillside because if the top of the hillside goes, the whole hill goes and every drop of water in that reservoir with it.

 

[Arkain2K]

As California waits on President Trump, FEMA gets going around Oroville Dam
By Michael Bodley, San Francisco Chronicle
February 13, 2017

​

As California waited Monday night to see if President Donald Trump would grant Gov. Jerry Brown’s request for emergency funding for 10,000 evacuees who lived in the shadow of the Oroville Dam, FEMA began preparing for the worse.

The federal disaster-management agency’s Region 9, which oversees California and other Western states, has mobilized a 24-hour task force to coordinate its response with state and local agencies, said Mary Simms, a spokeswoman.

Though about 188,000 people were displaced by the evacuation orders, Brown’s letter to Trump asks to prioritize those who need help most.

Dozens of federal aid workers were dispatched to the network of makeshift shelters where the nearly 200,000 evacuated people, many of whom lived in Butte County, were spending their nights, waiting for word on when they could return home.

Regardless of whether Trump grants California the emergency status necessary for what Brown is seeking, FEMA will play a crucial role in how aid is distributed.

The agency has already started shelling out 150,000 one-liter bottles of water, 20,000 blankets and 10,000 cots to the displaced, Simms said.

Hotels around the dam — the emergency spillway of which officials worried might break Sunday, sending a 30-foot wall of water cascading into the communities below — have largely booked up.

Those who don’t have friends or relatives to stay with, or can’t afford a hotel room, have no place to go, so they sleep where they can: in their cars and jammed inside makeshift shelters.

The displaced residents don’t know when they’ll be able to return, either.

Officials have said they’re monitoring the situation and won’t commit to a timeline. Another round of storms is expected to swell the reservoir once more later in the week.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/As-California-waits-on-Trump-FEMA-gets-going-10930344.php

 

[Teppodama]

No. Trump can't earn some fans among those who hate him right now.
They'll hate him anyway. If he helps, they'll just say it's his obligation to do so and organize the next 'not my president' march a week later.

Maybe so, but the perception of cooperation is what is needed right now. As much as they may hate him and as much as he may dislike them right back it's his obligation as President to help the citizens of any State regardless of his personal feelings. He's not just the President of those that voted or agree with him.

Natural or man-made disasters are most certainly one of those times when petty party politics must be set aside for the good of the nation and its citizens. If he fails in this duty or attempts to use it as leverage against the agendas of California then it validates at least portions of their opinion of him.

 

[Victor Maitland]

 

[xcvbn]

It was under Republican leadership that the potential for catastrophic erosion was highlighted, and then it has subsequently been ignored by the current Democratic leadership for the last 6 years.


When will you people stop posting political party pandering and start attacking both parties for their neglect of the Constitution, disregard for the people, and corruption of government?

 

[Arkain2K]

Shit, more rainstorms...

 

[boomertx]

Heh?

California, itching to secede from the US, with a Gross State Product larger than most of the world's countries GDP's and a population of 40+ million cant figure out logistically and financially how to handle the evacuation of .05% of the state's population?

 

[Rod1]

You're not listening. No one preserves nature. Environmentalists create a different nature from the past. It's an idealized version created by men who don't much like nature as it really is.



The state needs more cheap water, not less. Water is a public good. There is no market mechanism to determine a fair cost. The men who developed Palm Springs did so with the knowledge that water would be provided by a state which was determined to develop California.

If you want to change the bargain now, that's fine, but don't do so dishonestly with the untrue argument based on artificial scarcity and an idealized version of nature.

1.- No, enviromentalists dont have that capability, enviromentalists study nature as complex as it is and try to keep human impact of a minimum.

Saying that nature is not the same as it was before humans, therefore further destruction is irrelevant is like claiming that since a woman lost her virginity, may as well not care about someone raping her.

2.- And the men that developed coal communities didnt expected nuclear, natural gas and other industries making coal irrelevant, those that developed around gold and silver mines didnt expected them to dry up. Detroit didnt expected automation and off-shoring.

Why is Palm Springs special? water is a finite resource indeed, so taking it from nature just to please them is not a given right, they could take it out from farmers, if they outprice them or they could go into other creative ways to save water if the price is right.

Scarcity is not artificial, your whole link pointed that out, water is finite.

 

[Deleted member 491001]

Pretty thorough update video from an informed and motivated dude. First 7 minutes is him talking about the situation, then it moves on to his experience going to the dam, the spillway, and all around. He does a very good job of pointing out the locations of things around the dam while narrating.



Other videos I've seen from this week claim the only reason the reservoir has been able to be dropped by 50ft is because the 9 dams upstream from this one have been restricting or stopping outflow while repairs are done in Oroville, but now those reservoirs are near or at capacity and have no choice but to let the water flow, which of course will inundate the Oroville reservoir with massive amounts of water, which the continued rain is already doing.

Another video I watched last night showed National Guard troops speaking with a person in their car, concealing their phone from the troops, and they claimed the National Guard is preparing for the worst case scenario of a catastrophic failure of the Oroville Dam due to the ongoing erosion at the main spillway. This contingency would include the possibility of evacuating most areas south of the dam down the central valkey all the way to MERCED, which is about 180 miles south!! This would include Sacramento, Stockton, etc!

Just to be clear, the emergency spillway is NOT repaired at this time (one engineer at the dam said they've patched up only about 8% of the damage there) and the main spillway, the one with the massive breach that's spilling water down the earthen embankment, is still flowing at maximum capacity, 60,000 cubic feet per second.

I highly recommend watching the video, at least from the 7 minute mark, because it shows the current situation very up close, and has tons of information that could be useful in understanding the functionality/state of repair (disrepair?) of other dams throughout the country.

@Arkain2K because I know you like thorough, independent reporting and being informed

 

[GORETAURO]

Evacuations ordered, is commiefornia going to drown?


http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/butte/evacuation-orders-for-low-levels-of-oroville/330519833

Live streams:

http://www.krcrtv.com/krcr-news-channel-7-live-stream <---- best one
https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29411
another one:




some random periscope: https://www.periscope.tv/HASSAN_Qatif/1MnxnLVVbEkGO

What is really important when there is low oroville levels is Are you drinking your Ovaltine???
Little orphan Annie's life might be at steak here.

1.- No, enviromentalists dont have that capability, enviromentalists study nature as complex as it is and try to keep human impact of a minimum.

.

Proof? Very broad statement

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Is it still raining? I was there when it first hit SoCal. It slowed down by Saturday.

 

[Deleted member 491001]

Is it still raining? I was there when it first hit SoCal. It slowed down by Saturday.

I thought there was another atmospheric river coming in Sunday, but looking at the forecast it's only a 20% chance.

 

[SafeSpace]

Too bad people didn't listen to arnold a decade ago... this is 100% moonbeam and the democrat leadership of californias fault period.