CA, the Illegal Sanctuary State: Judge fast-tracks Huntington Beach lawsuit against sanctuary laws

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Arkain2K, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    You're in CA, do you know the general rules about government access to employee records?

    My understanding is that government access requires some kid of court order and the employer has a duty to the employee to protect those records from unauthorized searches.
     
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  2. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I don’t know the general rules, but they certainly aren’t that hard to get in litigation.

    I also don’t know the law in question well, but it seems to me that an employee’s immigration status is not something that can be construed as ‘private.’ This isn’t ‘private’ any more than your wage earnings could lawfully be withheld from reporting to the IRS on ‘privacy’ grounds. I can’t imagine how the feds would have the right to compel the one but not the other. If they were asking for things like disciplinary actions I could see an argument, but citizenship?

    But that’s not the problematic part of the law anyways. The real problem is the criminalization of cooperating with federal immigration enforcement .... even when voluntary. You can’t agree to let feds onto your *own business property.* That’s some Confederacy-level separatism. I can’t imagine it could withstand even basic scrutiny.
     
  3. Rozko

    Rozko Brown Belt

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    Those records are the employers and if the employer wants to they can surrender them willingly if the government asks for them. If they say no, the government needs a warrant.
     
  4. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    But your employer reports your earnings because they are obligated under federal law to provide you with a W-2 as a condition of being an employer and to furnish a copy to the IRS under the tax code. You authorize your employer to perform the withholdings for you that ultimately end up on the W-2 and you exercise control over that amount. That whole process is entirely federal in nature, explicitly spelled out and agreed to when you take on employment.

    My understanding of this law, from another thread, is that it only applies to an employer taking a federal agent into a non-public portion of the company or granting access to elements of the employee file without first receiving some sort of court order, subpoena, warrant, etc. during a raid. It doesn't prevent the federal agent from compelling the production of the records or punish the employer from complying with the formal request. And it doesn't prevent the the federal agents from viewing the I-9 which would cover legal work status.

    I saw it as more akin to a landlord granting police access to a tenant's rented space without a warrant. Which the landlord can't do absent very specific criteria.

    Which is why I was curious about employee records access under CA law since it would seem relevant to whether or not that type of access normally requires a judicial order, regardless of purpose.
     
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  5. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    And the state is stepping in to say that if the government wants those records it will now require a warrant. Which isn't unusual since we see that already with medical records that an employer comes to possess. The employer can't voluntarily release employee medical information even if it's in the employee file.
     
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  6. Rozko

    Rozko Brown Belt

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    That is very personal information, private of you will. Citizenship and imegration is not.
     
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  7. Cuzcatlan

    Cuzcatlan Bénir Henry

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    Not that they are just illegal but his family has committed crimes that might get them on the front of the deportation list. He emitted that some of his family is illegally here and using false identity.

    "Responding to President Trump’s suggestion of “withholding federal funding” from California, de Leon said: “Half of my family would be eligible for deportation under the executive order, because they got a false social security card, they got a false identification, they got a false driver’s license prior to us passing AB 60, they got a false green card, and anyone who has family members who are undocumented knows that almost entirely everybody has secured some sort of false identification.”
     
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  8. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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  9. alanb

    alanb Brown Belt

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    Do you have a copy of the complaint or know the grounds they are suing on? Is it preemption?
     
  10. helltoupee

    helltoupee Black Belt

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    Citizenship information is stored in an employee's file. So is personal information. Medical information. Bank account information. etc.

    Good on CA for telling the Feds to fuck off without a warrant.

    I am not ok with the government conducting inspections of my private information, my home, my vehicle, or my person, just because they are "looking for bad guys".
     
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  11. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It's completely different than your own private apartment. Employees have zero privacy interest in ‘non-public’ areas of a private employer’s business, like a factory floor. If I, as an attorney, for example, am invited by my client to go visit their factory floor (as I've done many times), you'd fall over in a paroxysm of laughter at the suggestion that the workers have a 'privacy interest' that prevents my client from bringing me there (unless they are working nude, or something highly unusual ...). It is astounding that the state of California would purport to criminalize a private employer for allowing federal agents onto private business property. Worse, there is literally zero rationale for this except as deliberate impairment of federal immigration enforcement. Again, you can always invite anybody onto your non-public business land at any time. For essentially any reason, no matter how asinine. UNLESS they are a federal law enforcement agent working on an immigration matter. OMG, then suddenly it's totally different, and you can be punished for that under California state law. You can't make this up; it's like they codified drug lookouts, and try to penalize voluntary narcing.

    As for employment records, I’m not sure on what the specific law is purporting to bar in that regard, but bottom line there is no ‘privacy interest’ in whether employees are citizens or not. If the employer knows that information about their employees, they can't be barred by state law from disclosing it to the feds, whether by I-9 or otherwise. And as to the IRS analogy, neither employees nor their employers nor the state of California agrees to *anything* when somebody is initially employed in terms of their reporting obligations. It's imposed by federal law, and whether anybody happens to 'agree' with that imposition, relative to a given individual, has fuck-all relation to whether the feds can do it. It's on the level of tax protesting or Idaho militia men.

    I'm sympathetic to the idea that local entities can't be forced to help the feds, but to try to actively mandate that they *not* help the feds enforce immigration laws ... I can't imagine how that could be sustained.

    And this gets to the root of the problem. Either the feds are entitled to enforce the nation's immigration laws, or they aren't. Either states like Arizona and California are allowed to determine whether our immigration laws are enforced -- or they aren't. It's not going to be both. You can't bar far-right secessionist deviations from federal immigration law (i.e. Arizona) whilst permitting far-left secessionist deviations (i.e. California). Either we devolve into a situation where national immigration policy and enforcement is determined by the haphazard will of Arizona militia men and local California mayors, or that gets trumped by federal supremacy and uniformity. Since this will all be reviewed and decided within the federal system, I'd be extremely surprised to see a ruling that devolves the authority down to the states.
     
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  12. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Surprise, surprise.

    What's fucked up is that Kamala Harris was an Attorney General and should know better.

    In the end, pandering prevails over the law.

     
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  13. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    There were a lot more than just "some", and who knows how many got away when they got tipped off by the Oakland mayor.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...in-california-raid-derailed-by-dem-mayor.html
     
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  14. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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  15. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    California wants U.S. suit over 'sanctuary' policies moved to San Francisco
    By JOSH GERSTEIN | 03/10/2018

    [​IMG]
    California Attorney General Xavier Becerra signaled the forthcoming request in a court filing submitted Friday night.

    https://www.politico.com/blogs/unde...-sanctuary-policies-case-san-francisco-453607
     
  16. Cuzcatlan

    Cuzcatlan Bénir Henry

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    Could Trump and Sessions send federal troops to California over immigration?
    President Eisenhower sent federal troops to enforce school desegregation in Little Rock over the Arkansas governor's opposition. Sessions is warning California on immigration.

    "I understand that we have a wide variety of political opinions out there on immigration. But the law is in the books and its purpose is clear," Sessions told the California Peace Officers' Association on Wednesday. "There is no nullification. There is no secession. Federal law is 'the supreme law of the land.' I would invite any doubters to Gettysburg, and to the graves of John C. Calhoun and Abraham Lincoln."

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...gration-laws-glenn-reynolds-column/417633002/
     
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  17. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Los Alamitos votes to opt out of California sanctuary law
    By Roxana Kopetman | Orange County Register | March 19, 2018​

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    Overflow crowds watch public comment on TV screens on an ordinance to exempt Los Alamitos from the California Values Act law that limits cooperation between local law enforcement and federal immigration authorities on Monday, March 19, 2018.

    https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/19/los-alamitos-immigration-debate-sparks-singing-shouting/
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  18. jamesmiller14

    jamesmiller14 Hoosier Daddy

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    So you just kind of bypass the idea that Democrats have been trying to buy voters for decades, because what that sign says is technically wrong because of the Electoral College?

    You see, I love coming on here and seeing the bait. That's because when I'm on Facebook talking politics, it's a lot of this. There is no debate. It's the left or the right trying to find a grammar mistake or something stupid. When the opportunity comes where anyone that's intellectually honest would AT LEAST say "both sides are not perfect."

    But both of the gangs are trash. Rotten to the Core.

    But yeah. Go Blue Team. Keep telling everyone that disagrees with your politics how stupid they are, maybe they'll change their minds and agree with you.

    (that's not entirely directed at you, just the sentiment. We can fix this country. We really could. But we are too far gone. There are too many people walking the land that truly believe that if their political party wins they will have political Paradise. It's tribalism and it's cancer)
     
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  19. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Its going to make sanctuary states a lightning rod to immigration control. Sounds pretty convenient to me, invite them all to one place.
     
  20. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Orange County is planning to opt out of this illegal sanctuary shenanigan.

    Stay tuned for incoming lawsuit from Sacramento.

    ---

    Anti-sanctuary push could spread far beyond Los Alamitos
    By Roxana Kopetman | March 20, 2018


    https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/20/anti-sanctuary-push-could-spread-far-beyond-los-alamitos-2/
     
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