Buy or Sell: Jon Jones is the Best Fighter ever

[Paynebringer]

Undefeated in his career, but his UFC run as follows:

OSP
Cormier
Glover
Gusstafsson
Sonnen
Belfort
Rashad
Machida
Rampage
Shogun
Bader
Janitor
Vera
Hamill
O'Brien
Bonnar


In my humble opinion, that is the most impressive winning strength of schedule in the history of MMA. Beating Gus, Glover and Cormier in a row is likely the most impressive feat at light heavyweight so far, considering how good we know those three fighters are.

I would say Jones is the greatest of all time - the best fighter we've ever seen - if he didn't fail a PEDS test. I think it is only fair to take that into account.

Mighty Mouse has a more moderate strength of schedule considering how thin the division is. Light heavy is also very thin compared to deep divisions like 155/170, but still should be considered more competitive up top than flyweight.

In my mind, Mighty Mouse is the best overall fighter today considering his skill, athleticism, variety of techniques applied and domination of his division. Jones would be #1 for me if he didn't fail a test, which suggests he was cheating for some of his wins.

Guys like Silva are way behind, same with Fedor. They are greats in their respective division, in the time that they ruled, but not greats in the sense of overall time and all divisions.

 

[NC252]

Gus 1 2 3 4 5

Gustavo whooped his ass. Judges be damned.

 

[Paynebringer]

"but lacks ass and legs". You said it yourself. You don't think that plays a part in fighting? Do you have any idea how much of that "KO power" is generated from the waist down? Quite a lot actually.

There's no such thing as "the frame of a HW". It's about weight. If he can make 205, then he's a 205'er if he so pleases.

Jones beat DC up pretty good - DC who btw. beat a pretty impressive list of HW's before coming down to 205.

It's funny you never hear complaints that Gus, Rumble etc. should move up to HW because they have a "HW frame". Ya'll are just hating on the GOAT, which is fair, he screwed up a few times and people like their MMA fighters (who make money off simulated murder) to be choir-boys and role models, but this excuse for hating is just the dumbest shit I ever heard. What you're real issue seems to be, is how the weight divisions work and not Jon Jones. He can make LHW, pretty easily in fact. Stop talking shit, please.

Well said Whitebelt, don't take offense every whitebelt gonna take haze before they get color, but agreed with post

...

 

[Captain Herb]

Stipe
Cain
Werdum
Overeem and...

Dos Santos
He could lose to any of them really, Hunt, Brock (if you rank him), Rothwell could possibly smash him just on size and strength, I wouldn't count out Barnett in that fight and Ngannou could definitely put him out cold were he to catch him.

There's one reason he doesn't fight at HW, power. You need it in that division. Anyone he would fight could put him out with one shot while he would need to win a 3 or 5 round decision. And there are some great boxers and strikers at heavyweight, he would be at a big disadvantage.

 

[Pwent]

GOAT

 

[Dart Feld]

That's still my GOAT.

 

[Check-Hook]

Gus can easily be in the same position as Jones he has a HW frame too.. Rumble can do both divisions just fine, but he quits when people grab him so a HW grappler will mean he will quit extra fast.

It's not just about weight it's about how they carry that weight.. dude Bones has a hard ass diet and routine he does to be at LHW if he let it be he would easily fill up to 245 lbs in shape.

Like I said with Jones his grappling is heavily based on leverage if he meets up with taller guys it's harder for him to work his magic.. Gus, OSP even Bonnar freaking that dude totally outclassed by skills was able to go to a decision.

So we have problem number
1. effective grappling with use of leverage
2. questionable stand up but getting away with it because go go gadget reach HWs will be competitive in that reach neighborhood
3. no KO power, the moment you lack that at HWs you be fooked cause everyone will know it and will be okay with eating some shots just to deliver theirs

Jones is very skillful, he has extreme mental fortitude (among the best), he is creative with his bag of tricks, good fight IQ.. he thinks in there we have seen it many times BUT it all comes together with those extreme psychical attributes, good for him that he has them and uses them to the max bu take his skills and downsize that body and you won't see the same results.

Can't name him overall GOAT c'mon now most LHWs are essentially a hard diet, weight cutting avoiding HW guy for x and z reasons.

DC is impressive dude is thick and solid, stocky ass build strong.. but he has small reach and he is like 5'9.5 or max 5'10 and going blow for blow with freaking Jones.. imagine if those sizes would be reversed what would happened just based on skills.

Then we have them eye pokes and extended fingers and hand on that massive ass reach.. naw my man he can't be overall GOAT.

1. Fedor
2. Anderson
3. Jones
4. GSP

That's the stuff we have.. and let's see him what happens after the dick pills and coke situation if they are indeed missing or what.

I don't care who you have as GOAT. I'm saying that arguing he should be a HW is BS. He could easily be a HW, no doubt, but there's a reason we have weight divisions: weight matters. Height matters too, but there's advantages to being low too, especially as a wrestler. And Jones could not do what he does now if he were weighing 245 pounds. He's not build that way. He couldn't be as agile at that weight. He has a very lanky build, especially from the waist down. We've seen him walk around at that weight when he was powerlifting, dude looked way too big.

Now if he would go to heavyweight, he would have to gain some muscle waist down, correct? In fact, build more muscle overall. You don't think that increases his KO power? I'm not saying he would all of a sudden have bombs like Stipe, as he's not a good boxer, but it definitely increases it massively. Foolish to say otherwise.

To give my two cents on the three specific issues you have:

1: You're using it as a negative against him that he uses his height as leverage in grappling exchanges... WTF that's a testament to smarts and skill? The dude is still a tall motherfucker at HW and could do the same to most guys in the division. Stipe is tall too, and a decent wrestler, but Jones is obviously a better wrestler, I think he's a little taller and if not then definitely longer. That's the only contender, as far as I remember, that would be comparable to Jones length-wise.

2: Questionable stand up? He's not "getting away" with his stand-up because of his reach - he's come up with a gameplan that compliments his reach. Again, the smart thing to do. Can't believe you're actually knocking him for using smart kickboxing to, aimed at scoring points and drain his opponent. Jones' striking is really good. It's not devastating, but it's effective throughout the fight, score a lot of points and the accumulation of kneestomps and body kicks really wears the opponent out. He could easily implement the same strategy as a HW... You're making it sound like all HW's are gifted with the same length as Jones, which is far from the truth. Jones is still tall at HW, but he would probably be too heavy considering the way he's built waist-down.

3: You're saying people would disrespect his power and just walk through it? That's dumb. As I mentioned before, if he goes to HW he is forced to build some muscle and obviously put on some weight. That undoubtedly increases his power. Basic physics. If a man weighs 245+ his hands will hurt you. Don't get it twisted my man... He still wouldn't be able to land one bomb and end the fight, as he simply does not have very good boxing (his only weakness IMO), but he will have power if he can land though.

 

[Heelhook71]

The most gifted I'd say.

All the tools for greatness.

Heart
Athleticism
Toughness
Versatility
High fight IQ

The guy has it all..but I'm still never excited to see him fight.

 

[One MMA Fan]

I don't care who you have as GOAT. I'm saying that arguing he should be a HW is BS. He could easily be a HW, no doubt, but there's a reason we have weight divisions: weight matters. Height matters too, but there's advantages to being low too, especially as a wrestler. And Jones could not do what he does now if he were weighing 245 pounds. He's not build that way. He couldn't be as agile at that weight. He has a very lanky build, especially from the waist down. We've seen him walk around at that weight when he was powerlifting, dude looked way too big.

Now if he would go to heavyweight, he would have to gain some muscle waist down, correct? In fact, build more muscle overall. You don't think that increases his KO power? I'm not saying he would all of a sudden have bombs like Stipe, as he's not a good boxer, but it definitely increases it massively. Foolish to say otherwise.

To give my two cents on the three specific issues you have:

1: You're using it as a negative against him that he uses his height as leverage in grappling exchanges... WTF that's a testament to smarts and skill? The dude is still a tall motherfucker at HW and could do the same to most guys in the division. Stipe is tall too, and a decent wrestler, but Jones is obviously a better wrestler, I think he's a little taller and if not then definitely longer. That's the only contender, as far as I remember, that would be comparable to Jones length-wise.

2: Questionable stand up? He's not "getting away" with his stand-up because of his reach - he's come up with a gameplan that compliments his reach. Again, the smart thing to do. Can't believe you're actually knocking him for using smart kickboxing to, aimed at scoring points and drain his opponent. Jones' striking is really good. It's not devastating, but it's effective throughout the fight, score a lot of points and the accumulation of kneestomps and body kicks really wears the opponent out. He could easily implement the same strategy as a HW... You're making it sound like all HW's are gifted with the same length as Jones, which is far from the truth. Jones is still tall at HW, but he would probably be too heavy considering the way he's built waist-down.

3: You're saying people would disrespect his power and just walk through it? That's dumb. As I mentioned before, if he goes to HW he is forced to build some muscle and obviously put on some weight. That undoubtedly increases his power. Basic physics. If a man weighs 245+ his hands will hurt you. Don't get it twisted my man... He still wouldn't be able to land one bomb and end the fight, as he simply does not have very good boxing (his only weakness IMO), but he will have power if he can land though.

He scared of HWs.. he is like 10-15 lbs away, he could easily be bigger with a proper HW diet and routine.

Dude is at the limit for LHW.. he wouldn't be able to find great success if lower stats.. while DC would even be more scary with extra stats.

Dude has poor boxing.. in a week a smaller, fat, old, stocky guy will box him up.. the younger, bigger man with arms for legs.

Best fighter ever, lol some dudes around this place.

 

[tehMoose]

Nope

 

[Check-Hook]

I don't care who you have as GOAT. I'm saying that arguing he should be a HW is BS. He could easily be a HW, no doubt, but there's a reason we have weight divisions: weight matters. Height matters too, but there's advantages to being low too, especially as a wrestler. And Jones could not do what he does now if he were weighing 245 pounds. He's not build that way. He couldn't be as agile at that weight. He has a very lanky build, especially from the waist down. We've seen him walk around at that weight when he was powerlifting, dude looked way too big.

Now if he would go to heavyweight, he would have to gain some muscle waist down, correct? In fact, build more muscle overall. You don't think that increases his KO power? I'm not saying he would all of a sudden have bombs like Stipe, as he's not a good boxer, but it definitely increases it massively. Foolish to say otherwise.

To give my two cents on the three specific issues you have:

1: You're using it as a negative against him that he uses his height as leverage in grappling exchanges... WTF that's a testament to smarts and skill? The dude is still a tall motherfucker at HW and could do the same to most guys in the division. Stipe is tall too, and a decent wrestler, but Jones is obviously a better wrestler, I think he's a little taller and if not then definitely longer. That's the only contender, as far as I remember, that would be comparable to Jones length-wise.

2: Questionable stand up? He's not "getting away" with his stand-up because of his reach - he's come up with a gameplan that compliments his reach. Again, the smart thing to do. Can't believe you're actually knocking him for using smart kickboxing to, aimed at scoring points and drain his opponent. Jones' striking is really good. It's not devastating, but it's effective throughout the fight, score a lot of points and the accumulation of kneestomps and body kicks really wears the opponent out. He could easily implement the same strategy as a HW... You're making it sound like all HW's are gifted with the same length as Jones, which is far from the truth. Jones is still tall at HW, but he would probably be too heavy considering the way he's built waist-down.

3: You're saying people would disrespect his power and just walk through it? That's dumb. As I mentioned before, if he goes to HW he is forced to build some muscle and obviously put on some weight. That undoubtedly increases his power. Basic physics. If a man weighs 245+ his hands will hurt you. Don't get it twisted my man... He still wouldn't be able to land one bomb and end the fight, as he simply does not have very good boxing (his only weakness IMO), but he will have power if he can land though.

That got a little long, messy and confusing, but I hope my points are clear. I was just...

 

[Paynebringer]

Jon Jones

GOAT!

 

[brian]

What he has done up to this point, the answer is yes, his resume is really the best in the sport + youngest champ ever, long title defense streak + undefeated. Nobody else has his credentials, GSP is the closest one & even he has loses + was boring fighter in his prime. Both DJ & A.Silva competition was weak so i can't put them ahead of gsp or jones, so yea jones got it.

 

[INoHespectChael]

Is this Jones with or without his dick pills?

 

[Check-Hook]

He scared of HWs.. he is like 10-15 lbs away, he could easily be bigger with a proper HW diet and routine.

Dude is at the limit for LHW.. he wouldn't be able to find great success if lower stats.. while DC would even be more scary with extra stats.

Dude has poor boxing.. in a week a smaller, fat, old, stocky guy will box him up.. the younger, bigger man with arms for legs.

Best fighter ever, lol some dudes around this place.

You're not even attempting to make solid points any more, are you? The two fought before, I don't remember it being a case of "the smaller, fatter, older, stockier guy" boxing up "younger, bigger man with arms for legs" back then, but hey......

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Voted Yes. He is the GOAT 205 and has beaten a who's who of opponents. Would love to see him at heavy someday. To bad we never got to see him against prime Spider , GOAT v GOAT.

 

[Sp@cePeanut]

He doesn't have a finish in 4 years......that seems to matter a lot around here so....just sayin

 

[One MMA Fan]

You're not even attempting to make solid points any more, are you? The two fought before, I don't remember it being a case of "the smaller, fatter, older, stockier guy" boxing up "younger, bigger man with arms for legs" back then, but hey......

I think DC has the superior boxing.

 

[One MMA Fan]

Voted Yes. He is the GOAT 205 and has beaten a who's who of opponents. Would love to see him at heavy someday. To bad we never got to see him against prime Spider , GOAT v GOAT.

He is asking best fighter ever, overall.. ever ever till now not just division GOAT.

He cray cray.

 

[CrimsonFan]

nobody can deny he is up there

are we talking just mma guys? he's definitely in the top 10 ever.

I personally am alot more impressed with prime Fedor, Wand, GSP, Silva.

All 4 of those guys have had way more fights than Jon, and I bet you Jones has twice as many eyepokes than all of them combined.

He just flails his hands out there because he has bad boxing fundamentals. He's always way bigger than his opponents, and when he's not he isnt as dominant.

I'm not saying he's not gooe.. he clearly is, but "the best?" I don't think so. he certainly can earn that title if he continues to perform.