Bullet proof coffee advocate has a heart attack

[MescalineDreams]

I'm familiar with 95% of them. I was a cholesterol "skeptic" for about a decade. And let me tell you, misinterpreted links from science deniers, bloggers, diet promoters and other assorted cranks doesn't do much to convince me that the entire western world is fundamentally wrong about the western worlds top killer.

Then why was heart disease relatively uncommon up until 90+ years ago? Even though meat / animal fat consumption was at It's highest?

Why do every Indigenous native culture around the planet who've lived off the land for thousands of years have no Instances of heart disease? or any modern illnesses for that matter( Prior to the introduction to western foods like flour and sugar) These were people who lived as hunter gatherers. They subsisted off animal fats. Care to explain that? Since you're so certain that cholesterol and saturated fat contributes to heart disease.

I'm sorry but the science has completely disproven many of these Ideas. They are outdated and there was never adequate proof for them to begin with.

 

[MescalineDreams]

No.



And no.

I've been on the ketogenic diet many times. All I ate were bratwurst, fatty cuts of meat, eggs, butter, and vegetables. My testosterone level shot up by 200 ng/mL and my cholesterol level was optimal (<200).

Now eat a lot of sugar and simple carbs along with the saturated fat and dietary cholesterol, and you've got yourself a problem.

True. That's a massive Issue. I believe there's some evidence to suggest sugar combined with fats can create some complications. Cant remember who said it. might've been Ronda patrick.

 

[Badger67]

Ignoring evidence is lovely this time of year.

 

[MescalineDreams]

I'm familiar with 95% of them. I was a cholesterol "skeptic" for about a decade. And let me tell you, misinterpreted links from science deniers, bloggers, diet promoters and other assorted cranks doesn't do much to convince me that the entire western world is fundamentally wrong about the western worlds top killer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html?_r=0
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/07/27/saturated-fat-cholesterol.aspx
http://time.com/96626/6-facts-about...ign=Feed:+time/topstories+(TIME:+Top+Stories)
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377275/saturated-fat-and-skepticism-mona-charen
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21951982
http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6340
http://annals.org/aim/article/18466...coronary-risk-systematic-review?resultClick=3
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22875226

 

[MescalineDreams]

I'm familiar with 95% of them. I was a cholesterol "skeptic" for about a decade. And let me tell you, misinterpreted links from science deniers, bloggers, diet promoters and other assorted cranks doesn't do much to convince me that the entire western world is fundamentally wrong about the western worlds top killer.

"The moral of this story is not to ignore science, but to stay skeptical. The scientific method remains the best way yet devised to ascertain truth. But the scientific establishment is hardly immune to politics, fads, bias, and self-interest. Bad science is endemic. As The Economist noted in October, “half of all published research cannot be replicated . . . and that may be optimistic.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377275/saturated-fat-and-skepticism-mona-charen

 

[Badger67]

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

Does not clog arteries.

 

[forum poster]

Then why was heart disease relatively uncommon up until 90+ years ago? Even though meat / animal fat consumption was at It's highest?

Why do every Indigenous native culture around the planet who've lived off the land for thousands of years have no Instances of heart disease? or any modern illnesses for that matter( Prior to the introduction to western foods like flour and sugar) These were people who lived as hunter gatherers. They subsisted off animal fats. Care to explain that? Since you're so certain that cholesterol and saturated fat contributes to heart disease.

I'm sorry but the science has completely disproven many of these Ideas. They are outdated and there was never adequate proof for them to begin with.

Death from heart disease was uncommon until about 60 years ago for several reasons. People didn't have the wealth to indulge in bacon and eggs for breakfast and slathered butter sandwiches for lunch until after the 2nd world war and because either people didn't live long enough to suffer from athersclerosis or those that did live long enough to die of heart disease didn't get recorded from having died of heart disease simply because their deaths weren't recorded as heart failure. They had no idea of what heart disease was back then, people just died.
Before then people didn't live on that type of diet. Indigenous cultures lived on extremely tight food wise budgets. Even hunter gatherers that lived on meat centric diets only recived a maximum 40% of their dietary calories from fat, much of that from wild animals which had a low Saturated fat content.


I'm certain elevated Cholesterol LDL contributes to heart disease because the science is overwhelming and the entire field of researchers in the study of heart disease have confirmed it. Much more overwhelming than the science of cigarettes contributing to lung cancer.


All you have to do is look at the most prominant people who are trying to make money of disputing these facts. Even the top paleo and low carb promoters admit that LDL-p raises heart disease risk and should be monitored, yet they try to entirely ignore or obfuscate the fact that their diet contributes to the elevation of LDL-p in over 75% of the people that follow their diet.

 

[forum poster]

"The moral of this story is not to ignore science, but to stay skeptical. The scientific method remains the best way yet devised to ascertain truth. But the scientific establishment is hardly immune to politics, fads, bias, and self-interest. Bad science is endemic. As The Economist noted in October, “half of all published research cannot be replicated . . . and that may be optimistic.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377275/saturated-fat-and-skepticism-mona-charen

Absolutely embarrassing. Nina Teichas's whole book was a basically Copy + paste job of Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. In this article the author repeated Nina's critisims of Ancel Key's.

"It seems that the founding father of the saturated-fat theory was a sloppy researcher. In the 1950s, Ancel Benjamin Keys studied men in the U.S., Japan, and Europe and concluded that poor diet caused heart disease and other pathologies. He examined farmers living in Crete, Teicholz writes, but studied them during Lent, when they had given up meat and cheese for religious reasons. Still, Keys was apparently charismatic and convincing, and while subsequent research was mixed on the question of fats, cholesterol, and disease, the whole nutritional/governmental blob had become too committed to the low-fat orthodoxy to turn back easily."


I think she should be liable to libel spreading that kind of jibberish.

 

[MescalineDreams]

Death from heart disease was uncommon until about 60 years ago for several reasons. People didn't have the wealth to indulge in bacon and eggs for breakfast and slathered butter sandwiches for lunch until after the 2nd world war and because either people didn't live long enough to suffer from athersclerosis or those that did live long enough to die of heart disease didn't get recorded from having died of heart disease simply because their deaths weren't recorded as heart failure. They had no idea of what heart disease was back then, people just died.
Before then people didn't live on that type of diet. Indigenous cultures lived on extremely tight food wise budgets. Even hunter gatherers that lived on meat centric diets only recived a maximum 40% of their dietary calories from fat, much of that from wild animals which had a low Saturated fat content.


I'm certain elevated Cholesterol LDL contributes to heart disease because the science is overwhelming and the entire field of researchers in the study of heart disease have confirmed it. Much more overwhelming than the science of cigarettes contributing to lung cancer.


All you have to do is look at the most prominant people who are trying to make money of disputing these facts. Even the top paleo and low carb promoters admit that LDL-p raises heart disease risk and should be monitored, yet they try to entirely ignore or obfuscate the fact that their diet contributes to the elevation of LDL-p in over 75% of the people that follow their diet.

you sound like me In this thread from 2008.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/cholesterol-and-sat-fat.812889/
Trying to preach the gospel of how saturated fat / cholesterol causes heart disease. Ahh to be 17 again, lol. good times. Nostalgia. Check It out, It's pretty entertaining. I was pretty zealous, young, naive and truly believed with all my heart that fats / cholesterol were the root of disease.

Did you read any of the research I posted? Or just ignoring It. Thoughts on france? A country who consumes more saturated fat / cholesterol than almost anywhere on earth and have almost no heart disease whatsoever.

Saying that we lived on wild animals who had a low saturated fat content Is a pretty general statement. Considering the variety of animals we've subsisted on for thousands of years and the variation In their types of fats. There is also a massive variation In the percentage of calories consumed from fat depending on the culture. As high as the Inuit where almost all of their calories come from animal fat. How about the plains natives? Who lived on buffalo for generations. Very high diet In saturated fat yet no heart disease. Why Is that? Masai warriors who lived on meat, blood fermented dairy and some crops. No heart disease whatsoever. Why?

The reality Is, we've been eating animals since the beginning of time. Epidemics of heart disease are a relatively modern thing. Why?

I'll Invite you to look through the links I posted. I'd be Interested In hearing your response. Perhaps there Is some science you're Ignoring.

Confirmation bias Is a powerful thing

 

[forum poster]

you sound like me In this thread from 2008.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/cholesterol-and-sat-fat.812889/
Trying to preach the gospel of how saturated fat / cholesterol causes heart disease. Ahh to be 17 again, lol. good times. Nostalgia. Check It out, It's pretty entertaining. I was pretty zealous, young, naive and truly believed with all my heart that fats / cholesterol were the root of disease.

Did you read any of the research I posted? Or just ignoring It. Thoughts on france? A country who consumes more saturated fat / cholesterol than almost anywhere on earth and have almost no heart disease whatsoever.

Saying that we lived on wild animals who had a low saturated fat content Is a pretty general statement. Considering the variety of animals we've subsisted on for thousands of years and the variation In their types of fats. There is also a massive variation In the percentage of calories consumed from fat depending on the culture. As high as the Inuit where almost all of their calories come from animal fat. How about the plains natives? Who lived on buffalo for generations. Very high diet In saturated fat yet no heart disease. Why Is that? Masai warriors who lived on meat, blood fermented dairy and some crops. No heart disease whatsoever. Why?

The reality Is, we've been eating animals since the beginning of time. Epidemics of heart disease are a relatively modern thing. Why?

I'll Invite you to look through the links I posted. I'd be Interested In hearing your response. Perhaps there Is some science you're Ignoring.

Confirmation bias Is a powerful thing

Mate, I'm very familiar with the distortions of diet-heart. And believe me I've been down that rabbit hole myself. Most of the links you're giving me here are journalist write up and copy paste jobs from arguments I know very well. I'm not a vegan against eating meat either, I love chicken wings as much as the next person. I just don't like distortions of Heart disease because I've lost family members from this insidious disease.

The cultures of the past subsisted of animal fat at a maximum of 40% with a lot lower satured fat than domesitcated animals today. One of the main factors that kept most of them dying from heart disease was not only their lower life expectancy and the fact that they had no idea of how to record heart disease deaths because they had no idea what people were dying of at that time.

And the cultures like the Inuit and other extreme outlier cultures that subsitied of high animal fat diets were almost all infected with parasites that kept their cholesterol low. Almost all indigenous cultures had parasictic infections which kept their cholesterol low.

Have a read of Loren Cordains paper on Ancerstrol cholesterol. Hunter gatherers had, what Cordain argues was an optimal LDL of around 70. Which was actually mainly due to parasitic infections. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109704007168

An LDL of around 70 is optimal if you want to prevent atherscloric plaque or even reverse it. That is universally understood. Hell, we even have clinical trials which track plaque progression with LDL level's. As Loren Cordain (The father of "Paleo" and ancersterol diets) says, the optimal LDL is around 70. Brown and Golstein even won a damn Noble Prize figuring out blood cholesterol implications in regards to atherosclerosis.
Saturated fat raises LDL and LDL particle count in over 80% of people who consume it in a calorie maintaining diet. That's not even disputed. People with genetic mutations that have elevated LDL diet of heat disease way before their time, whilst people with genetically low cholesterol are virtually immune to heart disease.

When PKSK9 inhibitors which lower LDL to around 60 hit the market within the next 5 years it's going to be the nail in the coffin for last few people who deny elevated cholesterol contributes to heart disease.

 

[MescalineDreams]

 

[MescalineDreams]

Mate, I'm very familiar with the distortions of diet-heart. And believe me I've been down that rabbit hole myself. Most of the links you're giving me here are journalist write up and copy paste jobs from arguments I know very well. .

Not to mention scientific studies.

I only included the mainstream articles as a testament of how the prevailing wisdom has been changing In the past few years.