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Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by ChrmnMa0, May 1, 2017.
Thanks for putting this up.
Clicked for da buakaw, stayed for dat music.
Lol. Is he going to do MMA? Also, I can't help but comment on how terrible that shot was. jesus
Nothing against Southeast Asia, but wrassling is something you need to visit America, Russia, Turkey, Iran...
Man would I love to see Buakaw in MMA. Especially if they fed him some strikers early. The carnage would be magnificent.
When is he supposed to be fighting mma? Dude is going to get pinned to the floor and beaten unconscious by anyone with even high school level wrestling if he steps in there looking like that.
I wish he had at least three years of grappling in America, then I'd feel confident enough with his athleticism and intellect to not fall pray to more obvious set-ups that happen to new grapplers.
Then I'd relish the thought of him facing someone like Conor McGregor and all this talk about "Magnificent striking" relating to Conor might start to cool.
Three years training with a good team, and with Buakaw's tools is IMO enough to make him very dangerous. I think he might be too old now/shopworn to acquire enough quality training sessions in order to starch some solid names in MMA?
I think if he devoted himself to good TD defense with a top flight MMA team, as athletic as he is, he could still be a contender for a few years at the highest levels. There's just no comparison for his quality of striking. And it's not like he's totally unused to grappling, his clinch abilities are obviously great already all he'd really have to learn is how to stop shots at distance, how to cage wrestle, and how to get back up if he did get taken down. All doable.
But it would all be very matchup dependent. I think he could beat someone like Conor with a year or two of grappling training, I don't think he could ever get good enough defensively at this point to beat someone like Khabib. But I'd love to see it!
You're right, it's all about TDD, fence work and loose exposure to crazy leg lock entries used on newbie grapplers.
It's just.... he's in Southeast Asia.
I wish an oil tycoon would pay his way to America.
Being an athletic striker and being an athletic grappler are two entirely different things. The problem with his style as brutal as it is, is that he is far to square, grounded, and static of fend off even a school yard tackle at this point in his grappling experience.
As good as his striking is, he could be beaten on his feet by someone with good "MMA Striking." His rhythm could easily be disrupted by TD threats, and entering/exiting the clinch as a wrestler, hips low, picking ankles/knees then exiting and following up with combos before he can find his balance.
This video doesn't give me much hope for his MMA career, but it would be awesome if he could put in the mat time and make it all work.
I agree, but after being taken down a few times, eating a few masked Tae Kwon Do strikes, I believe Buakaw has the intelligence to adapt accordingly under the assumption his camp is legit.
If he trains in Asia, then yeah, he'll get smashed.
Potentially. Though I think you're underrating both the generality of athleticism and how good your balance and clinch wrestling get from years of Muay Thai training. He's not a kickboxer, he's a Nak Muay which means he's spent thousands of hours honing his clinch skill including dealing with trips and throws. Not to mention that dealing with caught kicks, which Thais excel at, is not so different from defending a shot. Certainly he'd need to learn the technical methods of dealing with double legs and other wrestling shots, but I don't think it would be nearly as conceptually foreign to him as you're assuming. There's a lot of wrestling in traditional Muay Thai.
I've actually had a little training in traditional Nak Muay. Little being the key word so I may be somewhat off base, but I have had extensive training in Greco/freestyle wrestling and in my experience the difference in clinch fighting between those styles is vast. Nak Muays rely on a very upright stance even in the clinch where as a wrestler will enter and battle in the clinch with sole goal of keeping his hips lower than his opponents.
Its the difference between trying to trip/throw someone off of a strike and trying to trip/throw/shoot on someone who is trying to trip/throw/shoot on you. A Nak Muay will attempt to control an opponent in the clinch while maintaining enough space to throw strikes, where as a wrestler will enter the clinch with the goal of getting his hips glued to his opponent, whether he is trying to trip, throw, or shoot off the clinch.
Not sure if there is anyone on sherdog with extensive exp in MT clinch & wrestling clinch.
I have a ton of Judo experience, some MT, and a little bit of Greco, and a fair amount of MMA, and I'd say that the Thai clinch is the closest to MMA only because it's the only one where you have to deal with strikes and potential throws (though obviously a reduced arsenal, and you don't have to worry about your legs at all). The Thai clinch is all about breaking posture and opening up angles to throw knees and elbows, the throws are mostly incidental if you can catch someone off balance or as a counter to a knee. NM do get their hips in very close and worry about keeping inside position and getting underhooks or very strong overhooks because those things are useful for doing damage without taking any, but they worry very little about locking their hands, though there are body lock throws in MT and they're fairly common if guys are slow to drop their hips down when they get out-clinched. Keep in mind too that a low clinch like you'd have in folk is not common in MMA as it will get you kneed, the clinch resembles Greco/MT much more than it does any sort of collar + elbow like you might see in collegiate or freestyle wrestling.
I'd say from a clinching standpoint (that is to say, ignoring the total lack of sprawl or other shot defense) the biggest deficiencies for your average MT guy are going to be a susceptibility to reaping throws and bodylocks of all sorts. You can't reap in MT, and while you can body lock as I mentioned the fact that you're wearing the big gloves makes it hard for the thrower to get a really strong grip, so you can usually stall out to a ref break just by squatting slightly and dropping your weight. I would expect a guy like Buakaw's balance and basic position and handfighting to be pretty good, but he definitely wouldn't be used to some really common MMA clinch techniques like outside trips.
Strictly speaking, I believe if Buakaw trains with a legit team, he'll pick up enough to defend takedowns. Speed and having good eyes plays a huge role. Leaping knee strikes alone sort of mentally prepare you for someone rushing at you. You are 100% that the grappling upright stance is different than wrestling, but having wrestled for years myself and competed, I personally think that TDD when trained by good trainers is fairly easier to pick up than learning striking, and lastly, a good athlete can learn the sprawl and needed defense to stave off a grappler. It's all about who is training you and if they drill heavy, shooting doubles, singles, duck unders, hi-c's, low ankle singles, ankle picks, snap downs to clear the entry...
I say Buakaw can adapt fairly quickly contingent on the quality of the camp. A really athletic person with a strong mind can pick up grappling enough to use their striking weapons.
The reverse IMO is harder. Striking takes more time from my perspective.
Rules make styles. You can't clinch below the center of the back in Muay thai, you can't reap out a leg to trip (think Osoto Gari), and you can't bend down to lift a leg up...you also have to release a limb after a certain number of steps. ALL that being said, these are things he can easily adjust to doing...it would be the equivalent of letting him just break all the rules.
Kinda like how I'm a Formula 1 Driver, just held back by the system of traffic laws and the oppressive monopoly on violence held by the state. I could easily shake off the laws of the road and become a great race car driver.