Bruce Lee vs Gary Elms

MysticNinjaJay

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Anyone familiar with Bruce Lee's background has heard that he won an amateur high school Boxing tournament in Hong Kong. I've read that the Boxer that he won the championship against was Gary Elms, a 3-time champion of the event. There are a lot of Bruce Lee haters out there who doubt his fighting record and many say that they don't believe that Gary Elms exists. He's not on Boxrec. There's no official Boxing record for him reported anywhere but he wasn't a professional Boxer so I wouldn't expect there to be. I did read that there was an eye witness to the event who reported on it named Rolf Clausnitzer. In an interview Clausnitzer states that Gary Elms was a classmate of his at King George V School in Kowloon, Hong Kong.

I would like to see if we could verify the existence of Gary Elms.

Here is an excerpt from an interview in a 1982 edition of Black Belt Magazine featuring William Cheung talking about the fight:

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Did Cecil score it for Elms?

I don't see the result mentioned anywhere in the article.

edit - hang on, was "he knocked out the 3 time champ in the 3rd" a summary of the fight against Elms?

edit 2 - So that that was the 3 time champ, and he KO'd him in the 3rd

I guess we don;t need Cecil or my alcohol vision
 
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Did Cecil score it for Elms?

I don't see the result mentioned anywhere in the article.

edit - hang on, was "he knocked out the 3 time champ in the 3rd" a summary of the fight against Elms?

In the article Cheung said that Bruce Lee knocked him out in the 3rd Round.

Clausnitzer however said it went to decision.

http://www.wingchun.com/ROLF.htm

RC: His bout with Bruce turned out to be the most amazing and bizarre boxing match I have ever seen and expect to see. I honestly believe that Gary did not land even one single scoring punch throughout the entire 3 x 1 minute rounds, with Bruce deflecting and taking all of Gary's punches on his arms. Gary was knocked down several times, but he was not knocked out (contrary to what has been reported in various articles and books!) and, even more surprisingly, he did not appear to be hurt or distressed. Each time he was floored, he would immediately jump back up. That's why the referee did not stop the fight. Notwithstanding Gary's extraordinary toughness, I was amazed to see him survive the bout in such good shape. It was not until later when I caught up with Frank that some sort of explanation emerged.

DP: Do you recall what your brother Frank told you about this?

RC: Apparently, when Frank and his friends went to congratulate Bruce after the bout, Bruce was shaking his head and looking far from pleased with himself. His reply to Frank's obvious question was something along the lines of, "Damn it, I couldn't knock the guy out". His rationalisation was that the large (16oz?) gloves neutralised the intended, penetrating effect of tilting the wrist on impact, a practice common to many Wing Chun practitioners (I gather he abandoned this practice in later years). He reckoned that this force was not penetrating the padding and, in any case, Gary was already being propelled backwards from the pushing impact of the glove. He swore that he would continue training until he could achieve the penetration he wanted. He also had his sights set on Peter Burton, a stylish and hard punching boxer from St George's School (which was exclusively for the children of British Armed Forces personnel in Hong Kong), a much bigger and heavier competitor who had TKO'd his opponent in the second round. By the way, Frank and I met Peter (who turned out to be half German as well) at a party a few weeks later and we talked about Bruce, but it's unlikely that such a bout would ever have been approved because of the weight and size differences and, in any case, Bruce left for the USA a few months later to begin a new chapter in his amazing life.
 
I read a biography on Bruce. Dunno how legit it was, but it described him taking on all comers and destroying them whilst not receiving a single hit.

Supposedly, he would hang around in public places and accept challenges from anyone who dclared themselves a fighter. And he beat them all with no dfamage/
 
The bnig one, is how accurate his duel with the guy who was put against him to stop himteaching non-chinese.

I've heard he got the rape. I've also heard he had to chase his opponent to put a beating on him.
 
The bnig one, is how accurate his duel with the guy who was put against him to stop himteaching non-chinese.

I've heard he got the rape. I've also heard he had to chase his opponent to put a beating on him.

I have a thread running on that subject as well.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f44/bruce-lee-vs-wong-jack-man-what-really-happened-1035674/

One of Wong Jack Man's students wrote a whole book disputing the outcome of the fight. He claimed it was a draw and the fight ended when Wong slipped over a raised portion of the floor prompting his supporters to step in to stop Bruce Lee from beating on him. Then there were some words exchanged in the newspapers with one account saying Wong won and Bruce Lee forcing them to print a retraction saying he won.

Jesse Glover tells a very different story in his book. All of this is detailed near the end of the thread if you want to take a look.

Back to Bruce Lee vs. Gary Elms. I created this thread because some Bruce Lee critics say that Gary Elms does not exist. They want a picture of him or at least an interview. Rolf Clausnitzer used to post on Kung Fu Forum and awhile back I created a thread there but didn't get a response.

There are some resourceful people on Sherdog. For instance when a loss appeared on Anderson Silva's Boxing record I made a thread about it and a poster made a call and verified that the fight happened. I'm hoping we can do the same thing with Gary Elms. This happened longer ago so I doubt it but maybe we'll get lucky.
 
Idk about Gary Elms, but this demo vid is pretty cool.

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I read a biography on Bruce. Dunno how legit it was, but it described him taking on all comers and destroying them whilst not receiving a single hit.

Supposedly, he would hang around in public places and accept challenges from anyone who dclared themselves a fighter. And he beat them all with no dfamage/

Yeah me too, I fought over 1,500 fights against all comers and all disiplines. No one hit me back even once because I am so fast and skilled. I've gone undefeated 25 years so far. I don't have any video and there's no actual documentation in boxrec, sherdog or any other reputable database of my matches or any record of my opponents either, you're just gonna have to believe me.
 
Theres at least some photographic evidence of him in a boxing match at one point in time
BruceLeeBoxingMarch291958.jpg


HongKongInter-SchoolBoxingChampions.jpg
 
Yeah me too, I fought over 1,500 fights against all comers and all disiplines. No one hit me back even once because I am so fast and skilled. I've gone undefeated 25 years so far. I don't have any video and there's no actual documentation in boxrec, sherdog or any other reputable database of my matches or any record of my opponents either, you're just gonna have to believe me.

I don't believe the claim that Bruce Lee took on all challengers and fought often because there's no evidence. But his family says he was in a gang and got in to a lot of street fights including rooftop challenge matches.

They looked like this:

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We know that Wong Jack Man exists. His students have even written about the Bruce Lee fight. Gary Elms is an enigma. I would think that there would at least be a picture of him somewhere if he were a champion at a school in Hong Kong.

Theres at least some photographic evidence of him in a boxing match at one point in time

Are either of those pictures of Bruce Lee? The first one doesn't look like him. The second picture does a little.

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Does anyone have any ideas on how to verify the existence of Gary Elms?

I'm thinking of either contacting Rolf Clausnitzer or King George V School for records.
 
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I know Gary Elms, i caught up with him in November he told me about his bout with bruce lee many times, the fight did actually exist. My long term girlfriend is his niece.
 
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Gary Elms doesn't exist and the story about the boxing tournament is not true.
 
Gary Elms doesn't exist and the story about the boxing tournament is not true.

He does in fact exist. I have met Gary Elms many times, He is still with us to this day.
 
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The Legend of Bruce Lee TV show covered his high school days and used fake names instead of real names. They showed Bruce finished the big name high school boxing champ and had his picture in the local newspaper afterwards.

Of course high school boxing championships isn't going to get worldwide coverage and related notes in history books.

I tried to see if wiki had any details on his boxing accomplishments, but didn't see any really.
 
Theres at least some photographic evidence of him in a boxing match at one point in time
BruceLeeBoxingMarch291958.jpg


HongKongInter-SchoolBoxingChampions.jpg

LMFAO, so the only evidence of his boxing career is a picture of him on shaky legs, with his back on the ropes...
 
.... Bruce Lee is obviously the other guy
LMFAO, so the only evidence of his boxing career is a picture of him on shaky legs, with his back on the ropes...

Gary Elms is my uncle, he passed away on New Years Day. It’s all true about Gary and Bruce Lee. Growing up my dad, Gary and Bruce Lee were friends and since a child I’ve always heard stories of them together. Unfortunately a lot of people from that time have now passed away. Up to you all to believe it or not but I know for a fact it’s 100% true.
 
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