International Brexit News & Discussion v7: British Parliament Rejects Theresa May's Brexit Deal (Again)

[Quequeg]

This is how fooking dumb Trump is Brittan's exports to EU 340 billion, exports to U.S. 56 billion.

 

[panamaican]

yup, if you check the brexit thread from 2 years ago all the remainers were warning this would be a total shitshow that would ruin us.

but apparently all the fuckwits that supported it knew something we didnt

Yup. And the ones who did acknowledge the possibility to shitshow said "It's fine so long as we control our borders..." Where are they now to lend support that this economic trainwreck is fine so long as they get to reduce migrant workers?

 

[Billy no mates]

I think the U.K-U.S trade deal can still be done, but that sorta-Brexit plan with E.U rules firmly tied to the U.K's neck is clearly going to limit A LOT of options compare to a true U.K-U.S bilateral trade talk.

President Trump says Theresa May's proposed Brexit plan will probably kill UK-US trade deal
By Rob Price | July 12, 2018

President Donald Trump has said British Prime Minister Theresa May's proposed Brexit plan will "probably kill" off any chance of a UK-US trade deal.

Trump's remarks, made in a bombshell interview with The Sun published Thursday during his first visit to Britain as US president, are an explosive intervention into British politics that seem likely to cause political chaos and imperil the prime minister as she attempts to negotiate Britain's exit from the European Union.

May's proposal was finalized Friday and quickly sparked a slew of high-profile political resignations from her Cabinet, including Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson and Brexit Secretary David Davis, over concerns the plans would leave the UK too closely linked to the EU.

"If they do a deal like that, we would be dealing with the European Union instead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal," Trump said, according to The Sun.

He added: "If they do that, then their trade deal with the US will probably not be made."

Trump personally criticized May's handling of Brexit, saying that her so-called soft-Brexit approach went "the opposite way" to what he had recommended and that it was "very unfortunate."

Trump attended a black-tie dinner at Blenheim Palace with May on Thursday evening, where the TV network ITV reports May planned to pitch the president on a free-trade agreement between the UK and the US after Brexit. But Trump's interview with The Sun now leaves that prospect in doubt — and puts May in a vulnerable position.

Many Conservative members of Parliament who support Brexit are already in open revolt over her proposals, which Johnson said would turn the UK into an EU "colony" — and Trump's remarks are sure to inflame their concerns. May is already believed to be dangerously close to a vote of no confidence by her party.

The prime minister's plan "will definitely affect trade with the United States, unfortunately in a negative way," Trump said.

"We have enough difficulty with the European Union. We are cracking down right now on the European Union because they have not treated the United States fairly on trading.

"No, if they do that, I would say that that would probably end a major trade relationship with the United States."

http://www.businessinsider.com/dona...it-proposal-will-kill-uk-us-trade-deal-2018-7

This is all fake news now , apparently .

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Yup. And the ones who did acknowledge the possibility to shitshow said "It's fine so long as we control our borders..." Where are they now to lend support that this economic trainwreck is fine so long as they get to reduce migrant workers?

what wasnt even made aware is that the we always had control over who came here and for how long..... we just didnt use them.

So the EU was being blamed for the incompetence of the UK government.... its actually unreal

 

[Rod1]

what wasnt even made aware is that the we always had control over who came here and for how long..... we just didnt use them.

So the EU was being blamed for the incompetence of the UK government.... its actually unreal

How did these people created the new world order is beyond me.

 

[Arkain2K]

This is all fake news now , apparently .

Hold the phone, you actually think it's "fake news" that the previous plan for a direct U.K-U.S trade deal without the E.U involvement is effectively dead with the new "soft-Brexit" outline? Come on.

Whatever blueprint that they talked about before is probably out the window now, and it's back to the drawing board if the U.K's sorta-bilateral trade agreement with anyone else must take E.U rules into consideration first.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Hold the phone, you actually think it's "fake news" that any plan for a direct U.K-U.S trade deal without the E.U involvement is effectively dead with the current Brexit proposal?

I think he is joking because Trump said the sun interview was "fake news"

 

[Arkain2K]

May’s Precarious Position Makes Europe Wary of Rejecting Brexit Plan Outright
By Ian Wishart and Tim Ross | July 12, 2018

The European Union is set to throw embattled British Prime Minister Theresa May a lifeline in Brexit talks because of concern that the biggest risk to getting a deal done is now whether she can cling to power.

EU officials say negotiators won’t reject outright the U.K.’s blueprint for how to leave the organization despite opposing several major elements of it. May’s plan to keep the U.K. closely tied to the EU’s single market after Brexit, the core of her policy paper published on Thursday, will kick start talks that had hit a brick wall after more than a year of back and forth.

The stance highlights how precarious May’s position has become. A week that started with a rare show of unity on Brexit by her government then led to two senior ministers quitting within 24 hours of each other and rebels within her own party dismissing her plan as a betrayal of what voters decided in the 2016 referendum.

U.S. President Donald Trump then dealt a blow, saying May’s plans would end any hopes of a trade deal with the U.S. Her version of Brexit would mean negotiating with the EU rather than the U.K. “so it will probably kill the deal,” Trump said in an interview in the Sun newspaper published on Friday at the start of his three-day tour of the U.K.

Many in the EU now don’t want to risk the consequences of immediately rebuffing the U.K.’s most comprehensive policy document since the talks began, officials said.

After months of infighting in Britain as the continent looked on, it means the next hurdle will be the EU’s remaining 27 countries having to confront their own differing views on how far to push Britain into greater concessions.

Brexit Vision
proposing a wide-ranging economic and trading relationship, with interlinked customs regimes and identical regulations for industrial goods and agricultural foodstuffs. The vast U.K. services sector wouldn’t be tied closely to the EU, though, because the government in London says the bloc’s conditions would be too strict. Banks in particular are set to lose current levels of access to the EU market.


In many areas the government’s “white paper” satisfies the EU’s most basic demands for a future relationship, and goes further than many in Brussels thought possible just a few months ago. The U.K. is promising not to undercut EU standards or antitrust policies, and to respect the European Court of Justice as the ultimate arbiter of the rules the U.K. sticks to.

But while the U.K. insists that’s a generous offer, the bloc considers it a bare minimum and it’s unlikely to trigger any wholesale concessions from its side. Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, responded by saying an “ambitious” free-trade area deal is on offer, yet the U.K. wants a far closer relationship than that.

The “divide between EU-27 and U.K. has not significantly narrowed,” said Fabian Zuleeg, chief executive of the European Policy Center, a think tank in Brussels.

Jury Is Out

For now, May doesn’t face an immediate threat to her job. Dissidents among her governing Conservatives have begun formally calling for a vote of no confidence in her leadership, but it’s not clear that they will have enough support to force her out. Meanwhile, she’s been leaning on the biggest opposition party to see if she can get her plan through the U.K. Parliament.

Representatives of EU governments will deliver their first official verdict on the proposals when they meet in Brussels on July 20. They must decide how far to accept the U.K.’s demands for bespoke access to the EU’s markets in areas like financial services.

The U.K wants the EU to adapt its rules on equivalence for financial services, for example by abandoning the power to unilaterally withdraw rights at only 30 days notice. There are differing views within the EU on this.

The question of whether the U.K can remain in the single market for goods but not services also divides the bloc. Hard-line countries say the single market can’t be fragmented in this way, while others are more sanguine, especially if the U.K. were to cave in other areas.

The EU will make sure the plan doesn’t undermine the “integrity of the single market,” Peter Ptassek, Germany’s Brexit coordinator, said in a tweet.

Border Question

The U.K.’s customs plan will be one of the most pressing questions because Britain thinks it will solve the thorny problem of how to keep the border between Northern Ireland, a U.K. province, and the Republic of Ireland, an EU member, invisible.

The EU is likely to criticize the complexity of the U.K.’s customs proposals and will probably demand a rethink, two of the officials said.

Negotiators want to conclude an agreement on the future relationship by October. It won’t be legally binding, though it will form the basis of trade talks when the U.K. is out of the bloc and during a transition period lasting until 2021.

EU countries disagree on how detailed the agreement should be, meaning some of the questions raised in Thursday’s document may not be answered until the U.K. has left next March.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...europe-wary-of-rejecting-brexit-plan-outright

 

[Panmisiek]

Mrs. May, EU don't MUST anything. It's Britain who voted to leave, and it's up to Britain to workout solution that will be viable. (EU already proposed solution), dont like it? Get the hell out then.

So, Brexiteers are happy because EU will lose £300 billion on trade if UK leaves without deal, while UK loses £100 bills. (well yes but that 300 bills will be spread across other 27 nations so the impact in fact will not be as significant on their economies as it will be on UK)

I wish UK could just leave the table. Each day I check up Brexit news its nothing but throwing shit on each other, nothing but hatred. Get on with it, leave, execute referendum decision no matter what. This is what people have voted for. Way too much time and money is wasted on negotiations that will ultimately fail on both sides.

@MayhemMonkey stop living in illusion of Brexit being stopped and accept decision your nation have taken.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

I have options.... if brexit isnt stopped then independence is assured. buh bye UK and hello EU

you are a fucking moron if you think "get on with it, execute referendum decision NO MATTER WHAT" is a good idea.... which is why Scotland will be better off without numbnuts like you having a say on our future!

 

[Panmisiek]

I have options.... if brexit isnt stopped then independence is assured. buh bye UK and hello EU

you are a fucking moron if you think "get on with it, execute referendum decision NO MATTER WHAT" is a good idea.... which is why Scotland will be better off without numbnuts like you having a say on our future!

The democracy is not about being wrong or right. Is about majority having a say. If 51% votes that 2+2=5, you have to accept that 2+2=5. It is a stupid example but this is what democracy is about.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

The democracy is not about being wrong or right. Is about majority having a say. If 51% votes that 2+2=5, you have to accept that 2+2=5. It is a stupid example but this is what democracy is about.

the leave campaigns broke the law.... the referendum should be nullified. There are rules in the UK around our elections for a reason and they were broken. So wtf do you know about democracy?

Also arent you an EU citizen? you do realise if theres no deal you have to leave dont you?

 

[Rod1]

The democracy is not about being wrong or right. Is about majority having a say. If 51% votes that 2+2=5, you have to accept that 2+2=5. It is a stupid example but this is what democracy is about.

So if Scotsland votes 50% + 1 for independence does that means they leave?

 

[snakedafunky]

To be fair to the Brexit campaign.
This unsolvable Irish border situation was a sucker punch from the EU to pull it out just now.

It's not like this unsolvable issue has been known the whole time.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Mrs. May, EU don't MUST anything. It's Britain who voted to leave, and it's up to Britain to workout solution that will be viable. (EU already proposed solution), dont like it? Get the hell out then.

So, Brexiteers are happy because EU will lose £300 billion on trade if UK leaves without deal, while UK loses £100 bills. (well yes but that 300 bills will be spread across other 27 nations so the impact in fact will not be as significant on their economies as it will be on UK)

I wish UK could just leave the table. Each day I check up Brexit news its nothing but throwing shit on each other, nothing but hatred. Get on with it, leave, execute referendum decision no matter what. This is what people have voted for. Way too much time and money is wasted on negotiations that will ultimately fail on both sides.

@MayhemMonkey stop living in illusion of Brexit being stopped and accept decision your nation have taken.

Sounds like the UK is in for some troubles in the near future

 

[Panmisiek]

So if Scotsland votes 50% + 1 for independence does that means they leave?

First of all, referendum are advisory and not legally binding, government can but dont have to follow the outcome. Of course if they wont follow it will be political suicide for such party and on the next general election party that favoured the outcome which won, will be voted in to carry out will of the people.

But yes, even if that was a vote by one person its still a vote. It is majority, no matter how you look at it. Democracy is about majority, not how big majority is or not. There always will be morons with loud mouths that didnt bother to vote and now disagree with the referendum outcome.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

To be fair to the Brexit campaign.
This unsolvable Irish border situation was a sucker punch from the EU to pull it out just now.

It's not like this unsolvable issue has been known the whole time.

in fairness that was the first thing the EU wanted to sort out.... and they have been trying to make an arrangement for months

 

[JonesBones]

I have options.... if brexit isnt stopped then independence is assured. buh bye UK and hello EU

you are a fucking moron if you think "get on with it, execute referendum decision NO MATTER WHAT" is a good idea.... which is why Scotland will be better off without numbnuts like you having a say on our future!

It's pathetic that you need a larger union to cuddle with. Bootlickers. If not the English, then the EU. That isn't independence.

 

[Quequeg]

Who does Brittan leaving the EU help? Russia, furthers the goal of weakening the EU, it is just a shame enough English were dumb enough to believe the Russian propaganda which will only hurt their own country.

 

[Panmisiek]

the leave campaigns broke the law.... the referendum should be nullified. There are rules in the UK around our elections for a reason and they were broken. So wtf do you know about democracy?

Also arent you an EU citizen? you do realise if theres no deal you have to leave dont you?

My first question is. Did you actually bothered to go and vote? I got feeling you did not. And now you screaming big.

Yes I am EU citizen. I am confident 100% that in event of no deal I still will be allowed to stay (somehow I cant imagine UK throwing out 4 million EU citizens who got bank loans, mortgages and then finding another 4 million that will be skilled again to replace them in their jobs). Even UKIP in no deal scenario wouldn't throw anyone out. So no, I am absolutely not concerned about that whatsoever.