BREXIT Discussion, v4.0: The Back-Pedaling

[Supereem]

Rampant unemployment, especially amongst the young, yet the insistence on continued free movement between economically equal nations. A plummeting GDP that is never getting back to even parity with the major players on the World stage. Borrowing and debt out of control with France, Spain and Italy 1200 billion Euros in the red and the EU as a whole running a 1.7 TRILLION euro banking deficit. Which is, of course, is footed by the taxpayer.

Bail out after bail out, forced austerity, a failing currency, unfair punitive trade deals that screw over poor nations, ignoring votes, bribery, corruption. Then there's EU's TTIP agreement which would have put the NHS on the market to the highest bidder and anyone who thinks it would be sold off is plain stupid. This was 100% going to happen through the EU.

People crying about Brexit are brainwashed beyond help.

Where are you from?

 

[Goonerview]

Well you have to go to the polling station, queue up, get a bit of paper, go to a booth, put a cross on the bit of paper, put it in a box.....

The referendum should have had a 50% of the electorate threshold and voting should have been mandatory.
The Brexit lot could then claim to have the support of the majority of the population and not just the majority who voted.
The Electoral Commission should also have had the ability to veto the £350m to the NHS bus and the newspapers should have had to comply with the same reporting standards as the tv stations.
The UK is usually governed by a party who gets 35-40% of the vote anyway so a lack of real democracy is noting new.

Turn out was higher than most elections. It was high enough. Brexit won, nothing more to discuss

 

[JDragon]

The German car industry has around 100 production sites in the UK. Will they continue to invest there without full UK market access to the EU?

German chief car lobbyist: "LOLno"

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN12H0NW?il=0

 

[WhitebeltXL]

The German car industry has around 100 production sites in the UK. Will they continue to invest there without full UK market access to the EU?

German chief car lobbyist: "LOLno"

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN12H0NW?il=0

A so called 'Hard Brexit' won't happen. I am 100% sure this government doesn't have the balls to do it. We'll end up "outside the EU" whilst maintaining the free trade/free movement, but without the benefits we previously had. A full paying member, that actually isn't a member. That way the gov can tell the public that "we have followed through with the majority decision" without actually losing everything. Most people here won't even notice/care. May is posturing, knowing the EU holds the cards.

 

[Hard To Tell]

Where are you from?

UK.

And it's mind boggling how young people are the ones wanting to remain and people are using the argument that young people were voting in the interests of their future when the EU has been disastrous for the prospects of young people across the continent. Just look at youth employment across the EU, 50% in Greece, 45% in Spain, 40% in Italy, 35% in Portugal, 25% in Belgium and France, 24% in Sweden, 20% in Ireland and so on. Even here in the UK which hasn't been hit too badly, it's still something like 15%, the worst it's been in decades, which is scandalous.

So why people still think we need the EU and free movement of people is hard to grasp.

 

[JDragon]

So why people still think we need to EU and free movement of people is hard to grasp.

Maybe because they have an understanding of basic economic realities?

 

[Goonerview]

UK.

And it's mind boggling how young people are the ones wanting to remain and people are using the argument that young people were voting in the interests of their future when the EU has been disastrous for the prospects of young people across the continent. Just look at youth employment across the EU, 50% in Greece, 45% in Spain, 40% in Italy, 35% in Portugal, 25% in Belgium and France, 24% in Sweden, 20% in Ireland and so on. Even here in the UK which hasn't been hit too badly, it's still something like 15%, the worst it's been in decades, which is scandalous.

So why people still think we need to EU and free movement of people is hard to grasp.

Young people are dumb, free movement of peoples and flooding the labour market pushes wages down and house prices up.

 

[Hard To Tell]

Maybe because they have an understanding of basic economic realities?

OK then, explain to me why we still need free movement between economically unequal states when unemployment is so high? Give me a break down. New arrivals to France for example, where a staggering one in four young people can't find a job, what are they going to do for work? How are they adding to the economy?

 

[JDragon]

Young people are dumb, free movement of peoples and flooding the labour market pushes wages down and house prices up.

Free movement also means that companies can get the best talent.

 

[Hard To Tell]

Young people are dumb, free movement of peoples and flooding the labour market pushes wages down and house prices up.

Yep, when people say free movement is good for the economy what they actually mean is good for big business and a wealthy few. But people are completely brainwashed and conditioned to think like this.

 

[Goonerview]

Free movement also means that companies can get the best talent.

No it doesn't.

You can get working visas if a company really wants that high talent.

Open borders floods the labour market with unskilled labourers that will work for tuppence.

 

[Hard To Tell]

It's also hilarious how some people think they won't be able to work in Europe or that it's now going to be some impossible task to sort out because of Brexit.

Last time I worked outside of the EU I completed my documentation online, which took minutes and my work visa was waiting for me at the airport when I left. It was a simple as that.

 

[brothir]

What I get from all of this is that the UK is in a serious political identity crisis.

There seems to be a significant gap in attitude between generations, few seem to be able to entirely account for what the facts are and the politicians seem to be self-centered to the detriment of the populace or incompetent and incapable of decisive action.

I have to wonder how it came to this.

As a Norwegian I'd like to be able to support the UK in making a clean break from the EU, even if that means leaving the EEA - or maybe especially if that means leaving, considering the EU army business. NATO is enough for me, thank you.

The issue is that I don't think we'll be able to compete effectively with the entirety of the EU unless another Greek and Irish crisis occurs.

 

[Phlog]

Seriously, what the hell these MPs think they're doing? It's been MONTHS and they're still in denial of the referendum result or what?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...y-brexit-with-commons-votes-are-subverting-w/

The people have spoken, now these politicians need to work with each other more than ever to get the best Brexit deal, not undermining their own government's poker hand during the negotiation!

In a representative democracy it's their responsibility to act reasonably when the public act unreasonably.

Polls show that the referendum wouldn't have the same result now.

Re negotiations, you don't show your hand and then negotiate. That's retarded.

 

[snakedafunky]

It's also hilarious how some people think they won't be able to work in Europe or that it's now going to be some impossible task to sort out because of Brexit.

Last time I worked outside of the EU I completed my documentation online, which took minutes and my work visa was waiting for me at the airport when I left. It was a simple as that.

What country was that. Because I had to get a few work permits in my life and it was never just an online document, maybe you were only getting a business visa?
The only time I could ever do it online was with a work and travel visa. But in order to stay in Australia that was more complicated with several interviews and guarantees from the employer etc. I now work i Thailand and its even worse.
I dont think the EU will want to make it easy for UK citizens to get Visas. Because we are not on the same side anymore. We are in competition now.
We want to make it hard for people to get work visas because we want companies to move to Europe. Not how I would like it to be but we are in competition now, everything from tariffs to visas etc should be set up to get the jobs moved from the UK to Europe.

 

[Arkain2K]

A so called 'Hard Brexit' won't happen. I am 100% sure this government doesn't have the balls to do it. We'll end up "outside the EU" whilst maintaining the free trade/free movement, but without the benefits we previously had. A full paying member, that actually isn't a member. That way the gov can tell the public that "we have followed through with the majority decision" without actually losing everything. Most people here won't even notice/care. May is posturing, knowing the EU holds the cards.

I believe that's called "The Norwegian model". Otherwise known as the perpetual E.U Frat Pledge.

Even with mandatory voting, I'd imagine a chunk of those 12.9 million would have just spoilt their ballots.

The entire thing was a shambles. Leave side with ridiculous (downright lying) hyperbole about immigrants, the remain side doubling down on calling anyone who disagreed with them racist/xenophobic. There was no informed debate and no actual facts, just political football between toffs completely ignoring the fact that peoples livelihoods depended on the decision to leave.

Add on top of that, NO contingency plan in the event of a Leave victory. You couldn't make it up, If this was an episode of 'The Thick of It', I'd have dismissed it as too ridiculous.

I did the debate Play By Play in the previous iterations of this topic, and that pretty much sums it up. You can still find those televised trainwrecks further down in the OP's Thread Index, just for shit and giggles

 

[Arkain2K]

In a representative democracy it's their responsibility to act reasonably when the public act unreasonably.

Whoa there, surely you're not suggesting the Government to disregard the nation-wide vote because the result isn't what expected to be?

Polls show that the referendum wouldn't have the same result now.

Polls also showed Remain would have won comfortably. They didn't.

Polls also showed the Scots would choose Independence. They didn't.

Polls also showed the Colombian peace deal with the FARC would pass by a landslide. It didn't.

Polls are inherently retarded, in this case they can't take into account the millions of young lazy fucks who stayed in bed on voting day and skip on the most important vote of their lifetime, just to whine about it on social media the next morning about how the older voters robbed their future and demand a redo.

Re negotiations, you don't show your hand and then negotiate. That's retarded.

We are in agreement in this aspect. I can't help but wonder if the MPs who are demanding Theresa May's Brexit negotiating team to lay their cards face-up on the table even have the U.K's best interests at heart.

 

[JDragon]

I believe that's called "The Norwegian model". Otherwise known as the perpetual E.U Frat Pledge.



I did the debate Play By Play in the previous iterations of this topic, and that pretty much sums it up. You can still find those televised trainwrecks further down in the OP's Thread Index, just for shit and giggles

Yeah that was good stuff.

Then mods disappeared and holocaust denial became a thing ITT..

 

[Hard To Tell]

What country was that. Because I had to get a few work permits in my life and it was never just an online document, maybe you were only getting a business visa?
The only time I could ever do it online was with a work and travel visa. But in order to stay in Australia that was more complicated with several interviews and guarantees from the employer etc. I now work i Thailand and its even worse.
I dont think the EU will want to make it easy for UK citizens to get Visas. Because we are not on the same side anymore. We are in competition now.
We want to make it hard for people to get work visas because we want companies to move to Europe. Not how I would like it to be but we are in competition now, everything from tariffs to visas etc should be set up to get the jobs moved from the UK to Europe.

It was Turkey and it wasn't the first time I'd been there which made it more straightforward tbf. But overall it isn't that big a deal getting work visas, although US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are the most troublesome.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Polls show that the referendum wouldn't have the same result now.

Hahahaha!
I assume you've only been following the brexit since after it happened? Like most people opposed to it.