Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and the kneebah!

Calibur

Jiu Jitsu Snob
@red
Joined
Sep 30, 2003
Messages
9,113
Reaction score
379
First, let's get this out of the way.



Now that we've caught everyone up on clsssic bjj memes, over the last 5 years "leg locks" have taken off. All of a sudden all the "how will you learn to pass the guard if you allow leg lock" bjj dorks are talking about how cool leg locks are while Jiu Jitsu hipsters like me were doing them before they were cool!!!

No but seriously, the heel hook game has come a long way and the straight footlock game has kind of benefitted from the advances but I have yet to see a true systematic approach to kneebar entries for bjj.

I mean something specific for transitions from passing to kneebar entries, consistent foot placement, and recovery.

We have all that with foot positions like 50/50 and the "inside Ashli" etc, but I don't know any systematic ways to put kneebar into the bjj style.

All the kneebars I ever see end up being speed scrambles, mostly from half guard with the most reliable follow up being heel hooks....which are still illegal under standard rules.

So how do kneebars work for you?
Do you X your feet or no?
Head close to your opponents head orfar away?
Do you grip with your hands or pinch with your elbow?

All comments welcome.
 
What do you mean you can't fucking knee bah!

I have just started studying the leg lock game. This month I am working on entries into the Ashi or single leg x and finishing with a straight ankle lock or transitioning into other leg lock positions. Outside ashi, honey hole and 50/50.

As to the knee bar. I'm still trying to learn but what I've found I have to go belly down or invert from ashi positions to get that knee bar. It's there. Also from top half guard it's right there as well. I'm still trying to figure out my hand placement and knee positions. It's all new to me but it's been fun trying to figure it out.

One of the things I have noticed is that it opens up my game especially against a stubborn guard player. Some of those guys with a strong knee shield and it takes five minutes to pass. Going for that leg opens them up. They start worrying about their legs and you are able to pass. It's been fun. It's new and exciting to me after nine years of playing with the top half of the body I think it's time to start experimenting with the legs.
 
All the kneebars I ever see end up being speed scrambles, mostly from half guard with the most reliable follow up being heel hooks....which are still illegal under standard rules.

In terms of leg-locks, the two I know well enough to hit regularly are knee-bars and toe-holds. They work well for me, but only because I spent a lot of time working on set-ups and entries. I've never really been a fan of the "catch a leg in a mad scramble" thing.

The toe-holds tend not to work as well in terms of getting a "tap", but they work very well for opening up something else.
 
I’m not a huge kneebar fan, (I’m too stocky) but I have been having a lot of success with Reilly Bodycomb’s “high top rock” entry to it in both gi and no gi. Brown belt, if it matters. Check out his stuff if you haven’t already.

Head close.
Feet kinda in an X.
One hand controls their head and keeps it close to my torso, other one pulls end of their leg towards me as I hip in. It’s more of a hamstring stretch for all but the most flexible.

If you start to lose the high kneebar there are lots of follow ups Reilly shows.

When I am in a “low” kneebar, it’s all about the head pinch, RNC grip, slight twist. Feet on their butt, crossed to protect the inside foot from being dug out and counter attacked.

If I start to lose it because they are building back up base I try to scoot out and pull their knee out from under them to set them back down. If they manage to anyway I’m going to look to control the other leg and use that to collapse their base to re-sweep them. If I can’t do that I’m looking to build my own base while trying to slow them, prevent the cross face, get to turtle and roll for the leg again if they left it in.

A concept that has helped me is looking not for 50/50 if they try to escape, but outside ashi. Even without heel hooks outside ashi can be useful for ankle locks - see Roli Delgado’s great run this year. You just play it differently without heel hooks. You don’t need to worry about your inside out leg getting heelhooked so no need to keep them crossed (except as needed to secure the position and pin their hip before you go for the ankle lock) instead put the feet on their hip and use that for bridging power for the ankle lock. In fact sometimes the feet on the hip is useful to keep them from turning the position into a leg drag and grabbing up the back of your gi.

And if they try to spin out of the ankle lock, back to the knee bar.
 
Last edited:
I’m not a huge kneebar fan, (I’m too stocky)

I'm built like a tiny Mark Hunt. 5'5" and between 155-185 depending on the competition. There's no such thing as "too stocky" for knee bars. ;)
 
I'm built like a tiny Mark Hunt. 5'5" and between 155-185 depending on the competition. There's no such thing as "too stocky" for knee bars. ;)
I’m around 5’7”, 180ish when lean.
I have two training partners where I literally am too short to do the standard kneebar. Their legs are long enough that I can’t control their hip, knee, and foot at the same time.

The hamstring stretch still works if I catch the leg early, but otherwise I again can’t reach their lower leg and control their body at once.

I have to use butterfly ashi to do the ankle lock on them, too. Or stupid throwing my leg over their shin and stuff like that. But at least with ankle locks I can make those adjustments.

I should add that I’m a firm devotee of “mostly practice what works on everyone”. So while I can kneebar people in my weight class and size, I’m going to stick to ankle locks and heel hooks for my primary attacks on the legs.
 
Reilly has the best kneebar finish I've seen, and it's all I use. You're looking to capture the foot with your head as quickly as possible, and as you extend make sure you're keeping the foot trapped with your head and rotating outward slightly. I don't have to do them fast, usually it's one of my slower leg locks.
 
I suck at them... Gotta put some serious work.
 
So how do kneebars work for you?
Do you X your feet or no?
Head close to your opponents head orfar away?
Do you grip with your hands or pinch with your elbow?

All comments welcome.

My kneebar game is woefully underdeveloped for a brown belt, but I'm working on it.

- I either triangle my legs or keep my feet parallel with a good thigh squeeze. I find that crossing my feet actually releases pressure on their hips where I really want the control.
- Head as far away as possible to avoid uke's arms entangling me.
- Order of priority: Armpit > Elbows on calf + hands on heel > hands

Due to some combination of timing, technique, and strength I almost never get my kneebars cleanly without giving uke the opportunity to cross his legs and defend. I've learned to love finishing the kneebar with a Texas Cloverleaf-style attack once the immediate threat is nominally defended. I don't even drop down to the footlock position as Smith does here. I'll use my free hand to pull the protecting shin towards me to expose the lower leg's foot, take a heel hook-ish grip on the lower leg's calf to haul the it out and finish with a kneebar using their top leg as a fulcrum once the top leg crosses the lower leg's knee line. If you want to be a real bastard about it you can even use your outside leg to step over the ankle of their protecting leg. The leverage is terrifying.



EDIT: For the finishing position, imagine the starting frame of Keenan's video, but with uke's bent leg between Keenan and the barred leg instead.

 
Last edited:
what i want is a good instructional on the danaher leglock system. drills, entries, all that.
 
The manliest of all submissions.

In addition to what Uchi said, this usually comes up for me from butterfly guard or open half guard when you are either inverting onto the far leg or when you are scooping it up for an x-guard type attack. The underhook on the far ankle is what sets it up best.
 
what i want is a good instructional on the danaher leglock system. drills, entries, all that.
The Kesting/Biernacki one is pretty close. Some differences, but it’s mostly there.
 
So how do kneebars work for you?
Do you X your feet or no?
Head close to your opponents head orfar away?
Do you grip with your hands or pinch with your elbow?

All comments welcome.

I think this is going to be a good thread!

So how do kneebars work for you?
They have never worked that well for me. Out of all of the main leg lock categories, they have been the one that I've done the least and been the least good at. Whenever I get the kneebar position, I usually switch hips to get myself to the 4-11/saddle. I used to watch Claudio Clasans and Jeff Glover kneebar finishes to emulate them, but was never able to get much going.

Do you X your feet or no?
I do cross my feet on the kneebar finish.

Head close to your opponents head or far away?
Far away. So if I have their left leg I get on my left hip. If I ended up on my right hip I'd just go 4-11/saddle.

Do you grip with your hands or pinch with your elbow?
I like to finish like a Gable-grip RNC finish, with their Achilles in the bottom of the V of my elbow. I also like to do a 'holding the phone' motion with my head, tucking it against their toes/lower foot. This way, if they spin out, they basically put heel hook pressure on themselves.

Braulio Estima's website (www.estimainaction.com/) is a wonderful spot for kneebar instructionals and sparring footage by the way.
 
Last edited:
Just to add. Most of the kneebars I get now are under-the-armpit kneebars when I am going for an inverted heel hook and someone manages to spin out. Like this at 3:40

 
In terms of leg-locks, the two I know well enough to hit regularly are knee-bars and toe-holds. They work well for me, but only because I spent a lot of time working on set-ups and entries. I've never really been a fan of the "catch a leg in a mad scramble" thing.

The toe-holds tend not to work as well in terms of getting a "tap", but they work very well for opening up something else.

You're exactly what I was looking for! What are your setups? What do they look like? Which famous guy is good at teaching them?
 
Went for a standing, rolling kneebar when my opponent took my back in my last fight.

I executed perfectly, but my momentary sucess surprised me and he got out. Its probably been like 6-8 years since i drilled this technique.

Anytime somone takes your back standing or on the ground kneebars are available for attack.
 
Kneebars are one of my most common leg submissions because I can't heel hook most folks at my gym and they're easier for me to finish than ankle locks. I get them almost exclusively from 50/50 when fighting to uncross the legs. I use the Reilly finish that Uchi was talking about.

I go for the rolling one a lot when someone is trying to get my back but those mostly end in scrambles or the rare calf slicer.
 
You're exactly what I was looking for! What are your setups? What do they look like? Which famous guy is good at teaching them?
I really think you'd be happy with one month of Braulio Estima's site, www.estimainaction.com. If you don't feel like paying for a month then PM me your email address and it may let me give you a 7 day free trial.

It's the best online training site for leg locks in general. Braulio does some training with the DDS guys so there's good heel hook stuff on there as well as good kneebar and toe hold stuff. Not to mention Estima lock and ankle lock stuff.
 
You're exactly what I was looking for! What are your setups? What do they look like? Which famous guy is good at teaching them?

If you want kneebar setups, I'd recommend looking up Bendy Casimir YouTube. He's very, very focused on the kneebar as his go-to leg attack and he's quite good at getting them.

Here's one to get you started (the channel is one you should check out for a bunch of instructionals):

 
Back
Top