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thai boxing doesn't really emphasise foot work it tends to leave them vulnerable to takedowns. that and the upright stance.
Boxing vs muay thai as mma base???
- Thread starter Manimal87
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I do think real Thai style muay thai could be a devastating base, but is something we may never see. Instead of poaching retired legends, I'd love to see Evolve poach a young thai prospect. Though I do believe the infrastructure to cultivate some top shelf thai style striking could manifest in Evolve given a few more years. Fingers crossed.
Perhaps maybe not as a base but the fighters with the most thai esque flourishes like Mighty Mouse and Jon Jones have that extra wrinkle in their game that sets them apart from their peers. Mighty Mouse with his clinch transitions incorporating thai style off balances into knees and elbows makes him virtually unbeatable in the clinch. Jon Jones with his long kicking game, and punch stifling clinch game is reminiscent of a general thai ethic. So my argument is that muay thai hasnt shown to be a great base, but I do believe it can be given the proper infrastructure to cultivate top shelf muay thai alongside the other core arts.
Perhaps maybe not as a base but the fighters with the most thai esque flourishes like Mighty Mouse and Jon Jones have that extra wrinkle in their game that sets them apart from their peers. Mighty Mouse with his clinch transitions incorporating thai style off balances into knees and elbows makes him virtually unbeatable in the clinch. Jon Jones with his long kicking game, and punch stifling clinch game is reminiscent of a general thai ethic. So my argument is that muay thai hasnt shown to be a great base, but I do believe it can be given the proper infrastructure to cultivate top shelf muay thai alongside the other core arts.
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@mikiemike87
It's been said before, don't look for real MT in UFC... A good example of MT as a base for MMA is Dejdamrong. Even if he retired from MT in 2007, he was a 3x Lumpinee champion, and had a good run in ONE FC the last 3 years...
It's been said before, don't look for real MT in UFC... A good example of MT as a base for MMA is Dejdamrong. Even if he retired from MT in 2007, he was a 3x Lumpinee champion, and had a good run in ONE FC the last 3 years...
Muay thai has a lot of potential, but there's a reason that Jones and MM are able to fight like they do: both of them are easily the best wrestlers in their divisions.
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Here's the thing though. Is Dej only able to do what he does because he's in One FC? Or is One FC the UFC of 115 and the division is filled with American wrestlers?
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@Paradigm
Very curious about it too... But until UFC or at least Bellator signs one Lumpinee champion (or even retired ex-champion), i can freely claim that: MT is the best base and any real MT fighter would destroy any grappler/boxer/whatever just by using knees and elbows... And nobody can prove me wrong...
Very curious about it too... But until UFC or at least Bellator signs one Lumpinee champion (or even retired ex-champion), i can freely claim that: MT is the best base and any real MT fighter would destroy any grappler/boxer/whatever just by using knees and elbows... And nobody can prove me wrong...
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I'd assume there'd be some 125lb or above retired Thai trainer at Evolve, Tiger or PTT (maybe even AKA Thailand) that would get the itch about competing and making money in MMA. I'm just surprised we haven't seen more Thais yet but I'm sure they will come at some point.
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My ideal scenario would be a young thai prospect being magically given the opportunity to cross train. Someone like Sangmanee who was in his teens and had Olympic boxing aspirations.
What we are seeing in the female divisions are these international muay thai practitioners in JJ and Bullet who are simply outclassing their opponents. Is it the purest and highest form of muay thai? Not at all, but its hard for me to say muay thai as a base that incorporates all ranges of a fight, could not be just as effective as boxing.
The issue I have with retired stadium fighters is the mileage they accumulate by then, and to become even proficient in the ground game takes a minimum of 5 years according to firas. So you see ex fighters either being chinny, or not fully versed in grappling. We saw Dej get easily outclassed on the ground in his last loss and it's simply an area he won't have enough time to make bigger strides in imo.
For me, I'm clearly making mental gymnastics to make this work, but I do see it someday working.
What we are seeing in the female divisions are these international muay thai practitioners in JJ and Bullet who are simply outclassing their opponents. Is it the purest and highest form of muay thai? Not at all, but its hard for me to say muay thai as a base that incorporates all ranges of a fight, could not be just as effective as boxing.
The issue I have with retired stadium fighters is the mileage they accumulate by then, and to become even proficient in the ground game takes a minimum of 5 years according to firas. So you see ex fighters either being chinny, or not fully versed in grappling. We saw Dej get easily outclassed on the ground in his last loss and it's simply an area he won't have enough time to make bigger strides in imo.
For me, I'm clearly making mental gymnastics to make this work, but I do see it someday working.
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Well, it doesn't have to be retired stadium fighters past their prime. Sangmanee himself would be a stretch to enter MMA but some maybe fighter with high level MT skills and wasn't shopworn that realized that he wasn't going to get to the top of Lumpinee or Raja because of promoter politics or whatever. A 10/10 contract with $2500 Reebok bonus would be pretty good for a Thai that wasn't a stadium champ or fighting in MT/KB overseas.
I think it would help if there was one camp in Thailand that had both high level BJJ black belts AND a high level wrestler or two. From looking at the instructors for PTT, Tiger and AKA Thailand, it doesn't seem like any of them fit the bill (yet). I'm ruling Evolve out, since it's not in Thailand and is in a pretty expensive part of Singapore.
