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Boxing before Muay thai for MMA

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Muaythaifighter, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Muaythaifighter White Belt

    Muaythaifighter
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    I've did Muay thai for years now I picked it up because people I knew were doing it and it was a great outlet for my energy. Later I fell in love with MMA and now I'm looking for a grappling art (most likely BJJ).

    I've always had this in my mind that Muay thai MUST be better than boxing for real life situations and/or for MMA because we have more weapons then a boxer. Now I realize that boxers might have fewer weapons but the weapons that they have are much better refined then in Muay thai. Once they learn to block kicks and break out of a thai clinch they can be very dangerous.

    My question is to all that trained both Muay thai and boxing. Would you feel it would have been smarter to learn boxing first before going to Muay thai if your goal is MMA?
     
    #1
  2. freaky Freakiest Poster Belt

    freaky
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    boxing then MT. MT have bad hands. I'm training my hands atm.

    Muay Thai can definitely destroy boxing though.
     
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  3. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    For mma, boxing is a better base for striking for the same reasons wrestling is a better base for grappling. Both give you the most effective, most efficient techniques that leave the least openings and are applicable no matter your mental state. Historically, boxing and wrestling are the foundations of mma. Just look at how many champs in mma have used their hands and wrestling almost exclusively, including every current champ--Miocic, Cormier, Bisping, Woodley, McGregor, Aldo, Garbrandt, Mighty Mouse. The only current champ some might argue on that list is Aldo because he's known for his low kicks and knees, but most of his fights are controlled and won with his boxing. Looking at past champs, it's the same story: Velasquez, JDS, Lesnar, Couture, Jones, Rampage, Rashad, Weidman, Hendricks, GSP, Lawler, Hughes, Alvarez, Edgar, Penn, Cruz, Dillashaw. The list goes on, that's just off the top of my head. I'd personally even include Silva on that list because he was easily the best boxer at MW for years, but he's well rounded enough that I know many would take issue with calling him a boxer. There's a clear, undeniable trend of champions who specialize in boxing and wrestling. Keep in mind, that's despite the level of boxing talent and coaching in mma being very low.

    Boxing sets everything else up on the feet. You can use your hands to set up punches, kicks, knees, elbows, clinch entries, shots, anything you can think of. Most strikes thrown in mma are punches, most knockdowns and knockouts are caused by punches. Punches leave you grounded, so you aren't trying to defend takedowns with one foot in the air. Boxing isn't enough on its own, but it builds the best foundation to support an entire standup game.
     
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  4. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    hmmm, I have mixed feelings on this.

    I feel in the long term for MMA, boxing will go farther than MT, and I'm a MT guy. At the early stages new fighters regardless of disciple, have terrible distance management. Not learning the muay thai basics or having too little time to address it (stance, dealing with kicks, MT/dutch combinations of hands and kicks, clinching) is a bad idea. There's only so much you can do in 8 weeks (really 7, because the last week is a taper/active rest week).
    Most coaches, mine included, never lets their fighters jump straight into MMA right off the bat, they will have you take part in some MT fights to at least get a feel of striking to be at the minimum, comfortable; What I have seen from this, especially from fights in the US, is that the guys from gyms that are heavy on boxing and grappling, get fucked up in MT. They literally have no answer to the clinch with the MT ruleset. These are guys that are blocking knees with forearms in a cross block (getting them fractured), trying to body hook their way out of it, not going jock to jock (preventing heavy straight knees) which are all big no no's. Also, alot of the MT guys are taller as they try to get the reach advantage, as being taller has huge benefits in MT. Its not uncommon to see this type of matchup where its something like a 155lb bout, the boxer-MMA guy is 5'7, and the MT guy is 6'1.

    So, at the early stages, quite a few will lose their MT fights (first fights will usually be MT fights). Since being new, nerves kick in, habits of throwing single shots come back, pressing forward without knowing how to maintain their distance, lack of time spent being combination strikers, MT guys will take it most of the time; However, in the long run once they get experience (intermediate level), know how to breathe, cutting off the ring, deal with nerves and whatnaught they'll prob do better and will have the edge of MT guys in MMA.

    For myself, I'm learning more on hands and boxing, I don't regret my choice of MT first, I feel in my case its helped out alot more. That being said, there's no right or wrong way to this, everyone's different, some can do very well and click with boxing better and will be a great fighter regardless, others vice versa.
     
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  5. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    I think boxing is better than traditional MT for the reasons already mentioned. Plus, with the small gloves the defensive angles and head movement of boxing are defensively superior to the MT guard IMO, which is hugely important when even a moderate power shot can really rock you (4 oz!). It's one reason you see some sport karate guys doing well: they're good at taking the right angles and getting in and out pot shotting without getting tagged. Personally I think the best overall standup style for MMA if I had to pick one is probably Dutch kickboxing with an emphasis on the boxing side. That's a lot closer to what most of the good kick boxers in MMA do anyway (how many times have you seen Jose Aldo throwing knees and elbows from a Thai clinch?).

    I actually think higher level boxing skills may very well be the next big thing in MMA. First BJJ was dominating, then wrestling, then kick boxing with defensive wrestling, and now you're starting to see guys with better all around boxing skills like Conor MacGregor and Cody Garbrandt make everyone else look foolish with their shot selection, precision, defense, and power. Boxing has thus far had probably the least crossover into MMA of any combat sport since if you're a good boxer you can easily make as much or a lot more than you'd make as an MMA fighter, but you're definitely seeing top guys and top prospects putting a lot more time and effort into developing their hands, defense, and footwork.
     
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  6. Tayski Green Belt

    Tayski
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    And interestingly enough, the 2 disciplines which were already in the ancient olympic games in greece during Antiquity, thousands of years ago :)

    [​IMG]
     
    #6
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    a guy likes this.
  7. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    hands down at Irish fighting range? These 2 are complete cans
     
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  8. Tayski Green Belt

    Tayski
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    He's loading his right hand, before throwing that heavy right uppercut that got him the knock out o_O
     
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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    j123 likes this.
  9. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    Dude telegraphed that and ate a 1-2. One of the left has that look in his/her eye
     
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