BJJ- What's REALLY effective and ineffective in a real street fight ?

[CFGroup]

No not at all. He threw me once, then told me i didn't do it right. Threw me again and as soon as I fell he asked the class if I did it right and they all said No, then he sent me back to line and asked my other Fellow white belt to come in so he can demonstrate it right.

I never said anything. Honestly not complaingo or anything , just responding to other user who said 30+ white belts are not wanting to practice break fall. At least in my case that isn't true in the sense I don't fear the fall, just the embarrassment if I do it wrong

OK can't resist as a brand new minted Shodan I was given the beginners class to teach.

Try this for a solo drill:

Do a forward roll right foot forward. Notice how to tuck your left let by bending your knee and slap with your left hand? Do that 10 times each side.

Now do that same roll but as slowly as you can with as much relaxation in your body.

For breakfalling, as you go over very slowly right side forward, slap with your left hand and don't tuck your left leg. Keep a slight bend in the left knee but you want the whole side of your left leg and body to "break" your fall. Do all that slowly so you get use to the feeling of keeping that leg and side of your body absorbing the impact of the mat. Make sure that it's that whole left side of your body because you are protecting your spine so you don't want to pancake flat on your back(maybe what that instructor was noticing but not good enough to problem solve it for you).

Check out the body mechanics and position in this clip. Do these excercises before or after class and you'll be airborne flying the friendly skies in no time, Yee Haw, LOL!

 

[CHOKER28]

There is one thing, you need to have at least some competence with takedowns

Have you ever tried to take someone down on concrete ?

 

[jack36767]

Have you ever tried to take someone down on concrete ?

Yes..

 

[Steve08]

Yes..

What was the outcome? Genuinely curious.

 

[MaxMMA]

What was the outcome? Genuinely curious.

I standing doubled a dude onto concert one time, the only thing that was different was that I ripped my jeans and scuffed my knees up while I had him mounted.

 

[CHOKER28]

Yes..

why ? personally i would never take someone down on any sort of hard surface ,1 one you risk damage to yourself
2 Depending on the circumstance if the person you take down has a freind/freinds guaranteed they going to put the boot in 3i would rather keep it on the feet

 

[jack36767]

why ? personally i would never take someone down on any sort of hard surface ,1 one you risk damage to yourself
2 Depending on the circumstance if the person you take down has a freind/freinds guaranteed they going to put the boot in 3i would rather keep it on the feet

Because when you are working security at a heavy metal concert and the guy is bigger than you and drunk and it's not a group situation, putting him on the ground and in a hammerlock until backup or the cops show is sometimes the safest way to handle it, if there's a group.. no I'm not going to do a takedown, the goal is to deescalate or delay then, which leads to the most important thing.. situational awareness, And unlike what apparently all the "self defense" bjj people seem to think... it's very possible to take someone down (especially untrained) without hurting yourself or them, IF you actually know how to do takedowns with technique.. which requires actually working on them, not finding excuses not to

As far as other fights/situations I've been in, it entirely depended on the situation and the environment. Given that fights can occur on streets, concrete, grass, the woods... sometimes you can pretty much drop the dude and not worry too much about injury, or do in a way you control it. And in different situations I'll do different techniques, To be fair, I am the type of person that gets calmer and meaner the more tense and violent the situation gets, so being aware of what I can get away with might be different than others

Additionally, like has been said earlier, sitting down is absolutely the worse thing you can do in any realistic scenario, it only emboldens them and makes you look like prey to their hindbrain.

This is actually the most annoying part about what seems to be the majority (from personal observation and what I read about and watch) of the 'self defense' crowd and the clientele at Torrance.. they are almost always suburban white collar people that see things like getting corrected in front of everyone as bullying like Evenflow. Have very rarely grown up in bad areas, almost never been in truly violent situations beyond high school or bar peacocking, have a somewhat naive view of human nature and violence, and will probably quit around blue if the school is legit and doesn't coddle them. So the majority of the time for them teaching how, not being stupid, learning how not to look weak so it escalates the situation and staying calm will be the most important.

However that being said, IF they are in a situation where it is going to go the ground and it can't be avoided.. wouldn't knowing what the fuck they are doing standing and how to hopefully end up on top be pretty important?

 

[jack36767]

What was the outcome? Genuinely curious.

It depended on the situation, I used to work security being only 5'6 and I also was in several fights that I wouldn't have gotten into today. But I was never hurt beyond a mouse or two

 

[BJJ_Rage]

to the people saying you shouldnt shoot a double in concrete because you may hurt your knee... hmmm your in a sf with a dude whos willing to kick punch elbow soccer kick you, in the face, as hard as he can, and you worry about your knee hurting a bit... for fuck sakes, you are in a fight, yeah your probably going to hurt something, if it wasnt possible to shoot a double, then rugby players whouldnt exist. Yeah back to the old rugby thing, and just before anyone claims that rugby isnt played on concrete, you never been in a rugby field from a small club in a 3rd world country. its not as hard as concrete, but its pretty damn close...

 

[Evenflow80]

Because when you are working security at a heavy metal concert and the guy is bigger than you and drunk and it's not a group situation, putting him on the ground and in a hammerlock until backup or the cops show is sometimes the safest way to handle it, if there's a group.. no I'm not going to do a takedown, the goal is to deescalate or delay then, which leads to the most important thing.. situational awareness, And unlike what apparently all the "self defense" bjj people seem to think... it's very possible to take someone down (especially untrained) without hurting yourself or them, IF you actually know how to do takedowns with technique.. which requires actually working on them, not finding excuses not to

As far as other fights/situations I've been in, it entirely depended on the situation and the environment. Given that fights can occur on streets, concrete, grass, the woods... sometimes you can pretty much drop the dude and not worry too much about injury, or do in a way you control it. And in different situations I'll do different techniques, To be fair, I am the type of person that gets calmer and meaner the more tense and violent the situation gets, so being aware of what I can get away with might be different than others

Additionally, like has been said earlier, sitting down is absolutely the worse thing you can do in any realistic scenario, it only emboldens them and makes you look like prey to their hindbrain.

This is actually the most annoying part about what seems to be the majority (from personal observation and what I read about and watch) of the 'self defense' crowd and the clientele at Torrance.. they are almost always suburban white collar people that see things like getting corrected in front of everyone as bullying like Evenflow. Have very rarely grown up in bad areas, almost never been in truly violent situations beyond high school or bar peacocking, have a somewhat naive view of human nature and violence, and will probably quit around blue if the school is legit and doesn't coddle them. So the majority of the time for them teaching how, not being stupid, learning how not to look weak so it escalates the situation and staying calm will be the most important.

However that being said, IF they are in a situation where it is going to go the ground and it can't be avoided.. wouldn't knowing what the fuck they are doing standing and how to hopefully end up on top be pretty important?

Sorry dude but I have no intention of quitting, am not a suburban white collar worker (wtf?) And had a pretty rough life until I was able to escape in my mid 20s. I really think you're just making a bigger deal out of what I said. I've been to class like 3 or 4 times already after that incident and it's been fine

 

[jack36767]

Sorry dude but I have no intention of quitting, am not a suburban white collar worker (wtf?) And had a pretty rough life until I was able to escape in my mid 20s. I really think you're just making a bigger deal out of what I said. I've been to class like 3 or 4 times already after that incident and it's been fine

Jesus Christ, You really do pick and choose what you choose to read don't you. Way to miss or ignore the point. To be fair should have added an "or" or an asterisk so you wouldn't have gotten your panties in a wad

Btw, I didn't say anything when someone else pretty much said the exact same thing about what was probably really going on with your instructor as I said.. and you suddenly agreed. After vehemently disagreeing because I said it lol. I am glad you got over your paralyzing fear of imaginary bullying or getting embarrassed, welcome to grown up training

And the answer to your OP is really simple to get back on topic, bjj is more than effective in a street fight, especially if the opponent is untrained, if you use common sense if the person you encounter knows some stuff or wrestled in college.. eh, it gets dicey.. but the statistical chances of that are unlikely. I would learn some Judo though

 

[jack36767]

to the people saying you shouldnt shoot a double in concrete because you may hurt your knee... hmmm your in a sf with a dude whos willing to kick punch elbow soccer kick you, in the face, as hard as he can, and you worry about your knee hurting a bit... for fuck sakes, you are in a fight, yeah your probably going to hurt something, if it wasnt possible to shoot a double, then rugby players whouldnt exist. Yeah back to the old rugby thing, and just before anyone claims that rugby isnt played on concrete, you never been in a rugby field from a small club in a 3rd world country. its not as hard as concrete, but its pretty damn close...

shhhhh rage, don't talk about reality to self defense peoplenothing but whipping a dead horse

 

[SummerStriker]

to the people saying you shouldnt shoot a double in concrete because you may hurt your knee... hmmm your in a sf with a dude whos willing to kick punch elbow soccer kick you, in the face, as hard as he can, and you worry about your knee hurting a bit... for fuck sakes, you are in a fight, yeah your probably going to hurt something, if it wasnt possible to shoot a double, then rugby players whouldnt exist. Yeah back to the old rugby thing, and just before anyone claims that rugby isnt played on concrete, you never been in a rugby field from a small club in a 3rd world country. its not as hard as concrete, but its pretty damn close...

I wouldn't want to shoot a double on concrete for fun. It seems like a bad idea in the same way pressure point strikes to the arm seem like a good one.

If someone is totally cold and unafraid, you can hurt them really badly by punching them in the forearm. By really badly, I mean emotionally.

But in a fight a little damage doesn't mean shit. Theorizing on violence without having had much experience with it always leads people to believe small injuries are debilitating.

 

[rmongler]

The two most important capabilities in grappling are balance and weapon retention.

 

[jack36767]

I wouldn't want to shoot a double on concrete for fun. It seems like a bad idea in the same way pressure point strikes to the arm seem like a good one.

If someone is totally cold and unafraid, you can hurt them really badly by punching them in the forearm. By really badly, I mean emotionally.

But in a fight a little damage doesn't mean shit. Theorizing on violence without having had much experience with it always leads people to believe small injuries are debilitating.

We actually agree on this, too many self defense people want to live in a world they can avoid damage if they fight,

 

[Evenflow80]

Jesus Christ, You really do pick and choose what you choose to read don't you. Way to miss or ignore the point. To be fair should have added an "or" or an asterisk so you wouldn't have gotten your panties in a wad

Btw, I didn't say anything when someone else pretty much said the exact same thing about what was probably really going on with your instructor as I said.. and you suddenly agreed. After vehemently disagreeing because I said it lol. I am glad you got over your paralyzing fear of imaginary bullying or getting embarrassed, welcome to grown up training

And the answer to your OP is really simple to get back on topic, bjj is more than effective in a street fight, especially if the opponent is untrained, if you use common sense if the person you encounter knows some stuff or wrestled in college.. eh, it gets dicey.. but the statistical chances of that are unlikely. I would learn some Judo though

Don't get your panties in a wad, I honestly don't care at all what you're saying and didn't read past the first paragraph. Your advice has been complete shit so far and pretty worthless. I think you just have a Napoleon complex with how much of a special snowflake you are, since you said you were only 5'6".

 

[Evenflow80]

shhhhh rage, don't talk about reality to self defense peoplenothing but whipping a dead horse

I'll give you this though : you might give out useless advice but your passive aggressive skills are truly elite black belt level. Maybe add another smiley face? You really do have very low self esteem.

 

[SummerStriker]

Because when you are working security at a heavy metal concert and the guy is bigger than you and drunk and it's not a group situation, putting him on the ground and in a hammerlock until backup or the cops show is sometimes the safest way to handle it, if there's a group.. no I'm not going to do a takedown, the goal is to deescalate or delay then, which leads to the most important thing.. situational awareness, And unlike what apparently all the "self defense" bjj people seem to think... it's very possible to take someone down (especially untrained) without hurting yourself or them, IF you actually know how to do takedowns with technique.. which requires actually working on them, not finding excuses not to

As far as other fights/situations I've been in, it entirely depended on the situation and the environment. Given that fights can occur on streets, concrete, grass, the woods... sometimes you can pretty much drop the dude and not worry too much about injury, or do in a way you control it. And in different situations I'll do different techniques, To be fair, I am the type of person that gets calmer and meaner the more tense and violent the situation gets, so being aware of what I can get away with might be different than others

Additionally, like has been said earlier, sitting down is absolutely the worse thing you can do in any realistic scenario, it only emboldens them and makes you look like prey to their hindbrain.

This is actually the most annoying part about what seems to be the majority (from personal observation and what I read about and watch) of the 'self defense' crowd and the clientele at Torrance.. they are almost always suburban white collar people that see things like getting corrected in front of everyone as bullying like Evenflow. Have very rarely grown up in bad areas, almost never been in truly violent situations beyond high school or bar peacocking, have a somewhat naive view of human nature and violence, and will probably quit around blue if the school is legit and doesn't coddle them. So the majority of the time for them teaching how, not being stupid, learning how not to look weak so it escalates the situation and staying calm will be the most important.

However that being said, IF they are in a situation where it is going to go the ground and it can't be avoided.. wouldn't knowing what the fuck they are doing standing and how to hopefully end up on top be pretty important?

Good post.

The mental gymnastics people go through to avoid standing grappling training are even worse than the dance grapplers do to avoid putting on gloves - while still acting like they are ready to fight. My old kick boxing club was full of people who would spar MMA with no takedown training at all. They'd lose a lot but they wouldn't ever go to the grappling class. Scary to watch.

Even if you're a total pussy like me, you can still arm drag people to tani otoshi or bait the osoto gari so you can counter throw them

At least it lets you get your back dirty.

 

[jack36767]

I'll give you this though : you might give out useless advice but your passive aggressive skills are truly elite black belt level. Maybe add another smiley face? You really do have very low self esteem.

Alright let's approach this rationally, please inform me exactly what advice is useless? I want an actual answer

 

[jack36767]

Don't get your panties in a wad, I honestly don't care at all what you're saying and didn't read past the first paragraph. Your advice has been complete shit so far and pretty worthless. I think you just have a Napoleon complex with how much of a special snowflake you are, since you said you were only 5'6".

Again, I shall ask, what advice is "complete shit", and you didn't read" the last paragraph because you are so convinced I'm just being a meanie that you're being a close minded bitch. For god's sake artard.. I'm agreeing with the guy you white knighted in the other thread

EDIT: grammar