BJJ- What's REALLY effective and ineffective in a real street fight ?

[powerBJJ]

Good point, more a criticism of the guy in the vid than BJJ itself.

yeah he took what he had and what was good is he told the guy what was going to happen if he continued.

I'm sure once the vid ended it was over.

 

[CHOKER28]

The most effective thing i think you take from BJJ is after years of training is you core strength and you ability to move the human body with ease .People especially mates when they try to play-fight mess about, they cant believe how naturally strong you are.Its the same in real life fight situations when you grip hold of people you can see the fear in there eyes when they feel you strength.And its not oh i bench 300lb strength Those of you who grapple will know what i mean ,you just become naturally strong .in the twenty years ive was a doorman i have never used any bjj submissions if your rolling around the floor your in the wrong job

 

[jack36767]

The most effective thing i think you take from BJJ is after years of training is you core strength and you ability to move the human body with ease .People especially mates when they try to play-fight mess about, they cant believe how naturally strong you are.Its the same in real life fight situations when you grip hold of people you can see the fear in there eyes when they feel you strength.And its not oh i bench 300lb strength Those of you who grapple will know what i mean ,you just become naturally strong .in the twenty years ive was a doorman i have never used any bjj submissions if your rolling around the floor your in the wrong job

This is very true, it's actually saved me from a few fights, my more sadistic side enjoys that look they get

 

[powerBJJ]

I don't recommend that either. I think there is some risk of a choke out being taken as lethal force. If someone shot you, they might have a case for defending themselves in court.

Almost as bad, some people get up from a choke out unhurt, embarrassed and more angry. If they don't get up at all, you have bigger problems.

If the fight is an honest bare knuckle fight between two guys and you get a dominant position, most people most of the time can be calmed down by pinning them and having a conversation from the dominant position, so long as what you say doesn't shame them in a way that demands retaliation.

Save the chokes and breaks for life and death situations. Don't spend them during monkey dances.

Even when pinning someone, take serious the possibility that you can be suffocating them.

perfect example

 

[SummerStriker]

Thanks for the video. I'll check it out a little later.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I don't recommend that either. I think there is some risk of a choke out being taken as lethal force. If someone shot you, they might have a case for defending themselves in court.

Almost as bad, some people get up from a choke out unhurt, embarrassed and more angry. If they don't get up at all, you have bigger problems.

If the fight is an honest bare knuckle fight between two guys and you get a dominant position, most people most of the time can be calmed down by pinning them and having a conversation from the dominant position, so long as what you say doesn't shame them in a way that demands retaliation.

Save the chokes and breaks for life and death situations. Don't spend them during monkey dances.

Even when pinning someone, take serious the possibility that you can be suffocating them.

if you are going to break someones knees, you could choke him out and keep on beating the shit out of him... so when he wakes up, hes fighting is gone... his face will be allright in 1 month, his knees will not.

 

[Jbeefnet1771]

The primary key to effectiveness in a real fight is AWARENESS, followed by your particular skill sets.

What do I mean by awareness?
- Does he have a weapon or maybe has one? Does he appear to be trained on how to use it? If a gun is right to your temple, he hasn't been well trained vs. keeping their distance, etc. With weapons, avoidance is best unless you feel they are intent on using it and you're not in a position to run (need to protect family, etc.)
- Are they just posturing and huffing their chests, or, do you believe an attack is imminent? If imminent, you better strike first. If not, perhaps you can diffuse.
- What are your immediate surroundings? If on concrete or asphalt, I'm going to look to slam and use the ground to F them up. If on grass, I may Arm drag to back - but I'm not doing that on cement, etc.
- Are they big and strong? Weak and fast? Both? Do they have cauliflower? These are factors that lead to strategy.

What are your skill sets?
As a Brown belt with a wrestling background, I can do well in almost any position, but, I do prefer top, followed by the back. If weapon, can i disarm/parry and smash with my basic weapons defense? I'm more scared of a knife than a gun BTW. Your skills will factor into your approach, but, awareness and environment is equally important if not more so. Depends on "who you are" and what training you've had.

 

[Bayonet]

I would think that throw + knee-on-something + some sort of grip control on one or both arms is a realistic general framework a grappler would want to have for self defense. The throw lets you disengage and likely do a bit of damage to the attacker, a knee-on style pin keeps a measure of control while still letting you get up and moving fairly quick if you need to, and hand control could keep the guy from clinging to you. From these, you can up the violence ante or bail whenever you see fit.

The basics should do you fine. Remember, 90% of the stuff you learn is meant to help you beat other guys who know and train as much as you do. The general public gets dumped on their head and choked out with nothing more than the 'boring' fundamental stuff.

 

[jack36767]

There is one thing, you need to have at least some competence with takedowns

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

i feel like a bare knuckle fight is gonna end way worse then someone getting chocked out.

If you do BJJ / wrestling / judo etc then you should be able to take someone down with control, mount and subdue if your life is literally not endanger from them.

if your not the aggressor and simply defending yourself as clear as this video, i don't see what the problem is.

That's not how the american justice system works. Even if "you didn't start it" most the time BOTH parties will be arrested and you'll still have to explain yourself to a judge. If the person is injured or suffocates or has an asthma attack you will find yourself in a civil suit in addition to a criminal investigation.

if he started tapping, i would ease on the choke still staying in control to see what his reaction is.

but i stand by my statement

Untrained people in street fights aren't gonna tap so you can release. They are gonna fight and struggle like a fish on a line until they go out. You might not even realize they are out.

 

[Evenflow80]

There is one thing, you need to have at least some competence with takedowns

This.

Yes I realize I'm a white belt and don't know much , but almost a year in we trained throws maybe 3 or 4 times tops. This is such a glaring hole on bjj training. I understand they don't do it too much because getting thrown is hard for most new people and injuries can happen or people can quit.

Just truly sucks we don't practice takedowns more often or even start rolling from standing. Right now my takedowns aren't ant better than the average guy on the street. And if I can't get a fight to the ground then what is the point of training bjj at all?

 

[jack36767]

This.

Yes I realize I'm a white belt and don't know much , but almost a year in we trained throws maybe 3 or 4 times tops. This is such a glaring hole on bjj training. I understand they don't do it too much because getting thrown is hard for most new people and injuries can happen or people can quit.

Just truly sucks we don't practice takedowns more often or even start rolling from standing. Right now my takedowns aren't ant better than the average guy on the street. And if I can't get a fight to the ground then what is the point of training bjj at all?

It's not just the "injury" reason. There's a little bit of a cop out attitude of "well if I can't takedown a Division I college wrestler, obviously I'll never improve or get good at takedowns, so why waste energy" because.. logic

 

[Thycidides]

It's not just the "injury" reason. There's a little bit of a cop out attitude of "well if I can't takedown a Division I college wrestler, obviously I'll never improve or get good at takedowns, so why waste energy" because.. logic

In some ways this mentality of avoiding teaching takedowns is correct for competition. To be honest pulling guard is probably a better strategy in most Jui jitsu matches than going for a take down. Time spent practicing takedowns might be better spent on a sweep or other ground attacks that are more favored under the ruleset. Dirty Holt himself suggested this... hos quite is in another thread I started about this very topic.

 

[vodkaBearSnow]

Right now my takedowns aren't ant better than the average guy on the street. And if I can't get a fight to the ground then what is the point of training bjj at all?

To have fun, dude. If you aren't having fun, do something else with your time. If you want self-defense, go buy a gun and attend shooting range religiously. Or train MMA. Or move to safer part of town. Or just don't go places where you can get into fight. Or just be a normal responsible person.

I've been training combat sports for 8 years, 5 of those in bjj, and had maybe 3 or 4 "fights" in entire adult life. Every single one of them could have been avoided either by swallowing my stupid pride or by not doing bjj in the first place (because that 1 time I went to a very shady part of town on my foreign trip just to train at the local gym) or by not interfering when someone else (whom I've never seen before) was hurt.
Oh, and trust me, my training helped A LOT in all of these cases- untrained people are incredibly weak, I just couldn't believe how little there was of actual resistance. Armdrag to take the back totally works, any takedown, even if you don't know takedowns, it works. And there's not guard passing involved, because there's no guard at all- you just go straight to 69 to kimura or to mound. Scary shit.
But it's no self-defense. Self-defense is fiction.

 

[jack36767]

In some ways this mentality of avoiding teaching takedowns is correct for competition. To be honest pulling guard is probably a better strategy in most Jui jitsu matches than going for a take down. Time spent practicing takedowns might be better spent on a sweep or other ground attacks that are more favored under the ruleset. Dirty Holt himself suggested this... hos quite is in another thread I started about this very topic.

I wasn't talking about for competition, I'm aware of the meta, I was talking in general and especially self defense. I've said this before but there is a very distinct difference between pulling guard as a strategic choice. And not even being able to hold your own standing against some of similar size and athletic ability with as much training time as you. It should never be the moment that you realize they "might" know what they are doing on their feet you automatically drop to your ass so fast that the bruises leave your significant other asking questions

 

[trustdoesntrust]

In some ways this mentality of avoiding teaching takedowns is correct for competition. To be honest pulling guard is probably a better strategy in most Jui jitsu matches than going for a take down. Time spent practicing takedowns might be better spent on a sweep or other ground attacks that are more favored under the ruleset. Dirty Holt himself suggested this... hos quite is in another thread I started about this very topic.

I think it's deeper than that because it's not like schools are starting from the feet then pulling guard; they're starting from the knees every single roll. I think this practice hurts BJJ in more ways than one, because aside from keeping you from learning takedowns, it gives you a false sense of how guard engagements happen. In a fluid transition (like off a takedown), if you decide to get your grips and play an open guard then your opponent's first reaction is likelyto be strong and aggressive until he is subdued or swept, but when you start from the knees your opponent is naturally passive to start out, and so you will be able to comfortably get your guard and play your game. Thus, many BJJ guys learn how to play a tactically sound yet defensively flimsy open guard, when a more effective plan A might simply be to attack a single leg and come up on top.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Against 90% of the population who doesn't do anykind of martial arts, pretty much anything is gonna work

Against 95% of the population who doesn't do anykind of grappling, pretty much anything is gonna work if you can close the distance.

So against the 10% who know how to strike and have some basics in grappling you better close the distance fast if you don't want to get hit in the face and you better know how to take him down

Against the 5% that are grapplers, your in for a risky fight on concrete, you better stay on top and not get slammed.

 

[powerBJJ]

If you do BJJ / wrestling / judo etc then you should be able to take someone down with control, mount and subdue if your life is literally not endanger from them.



That's not how the american justice system works. Even if "you didn't start it" most the time BOTH parties will be arrested and you'll still have to explain yourself to a judge. If the person is injured or suffocates or has an asthma attack you will find yourself in a civil suit in addition to a criminal investigation.



Untrained people in street fights aren't gonna tap so you can release. They are gonna fight and struggle like a fish on a line until they go out. You might not even realize they are out.

Here's the thing if its a street altercation you typically aren't going to know what the person intentions are or if they have a knife or a gun on them.

i completly understand that i would be before a judge, i see no problem with defending myself if i was attacked and i subdued the person that was trying to assault me, i feel like it was necessary to choke them out ill do it.

and from my own personal experience of seeing new people grapple tapping seems to be a normal response (no they weren't told about tapping, no it wasn't in a gym setting)

Their are so many variables that come into play you can not say this is hows its going to be.

every situation is individual independent we can go all day with

 

[Coconutwater]

Someone like Uchi needs to answer, trying to answer in a nice way right now will make my head hurt

<45>

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Here's the thing if its a street altercation you typically aren't going to know what the person intentions are or if they have a knife or a gun on them.

i completly understand that i would be before a judge, i see no problem with defending myself if i was attacked and i subdued the person that was trying to assault me, i feel like it was necessary to choke them out ill do it.

and from my own personal experience of seeing new people grapple tapping seems to be a normal response (no they weren't told about tapping, no it wasn't in a gym setting)

Their are so many variables that come into play you can not say this is hows its going to be.

every situation is individual independent we can go all day with

People make too many assumptions about a hypothetical street opponent, particularly about how skilled or unskilled an "untrained" opponent might be. You train so that your art will be effective all of the time in any reasonable situation, not to exploit some hole in the fight of an angry mystery man.