BJJ- What's REALLY effective and ineffective in a real street fight ?

[Uchi Mata]

I disagree, what people wear generally will not be strong materail like Gis, what if im just wearing top, it wont work, the top will be flmisy, even if im wearing a jacket the material can stretch and is not as strong as a gi

Sport jiu jitsu isnt effective for a real fight because of strikes and there is no distance management. Roger Gracie said 90% of the sport techniques were usless, if your at the bottom and your reaching for a grip or something or your at a distance where he is sat up, he will punch you and you cant do ur sport techniques unless u can controll the distance i guess

Ground and pound is the most effective strategy, its easy and does a lot of damage. And mainly, all it takes is that one sec punch to ko your opponent in which a submission will take longer

I don't know what jackets you're wearing, but almost any sturdy cotton or nylon jacket would be strong enough to use for choking.

And what Roger said, to be very specific, was that 80% of sport BJJ was useless in MMA. MMA is a very artificial environment. You have gloves, there's a soft mat, you're in a cage, and you're fighting a basically naked highly trained opponent. In that scenario, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't work that well. I think that's much less true of a street fight where people are presumably wearing clothes of some sort, no gloves, and aren't usually very well trained. A lot more of it is going to work in that scenario than in what Roger was actually talking about.

And I don't know where you get the idea that BJJ doesn't include distance management. It's a huge component of guard play, whether for sport, MMA, or self defense. Most of what you should do when playing guard in a sport context like controlling distance, framing, and aggressively attacking sweeps and subs will be the right things to do in a fight. When I went from training for sport to training for MMA I didn't notice that I had to play very differently. Probably the only exception was that it became more important to be all the way out or all the way in, and you needed to think more about where uke's hands were when you were on bottom and wrapping his arms up when in closed guard but I already had plenty of techniques for doing that from my sport training. In fact, in many instances punching made it easier to sweep people because to punch someone effectively you have to actively create distance and generally that means releasing forward pressure to sit back on your heels which makes it much easier for tori to come up on a sweep. A punching person is almost inherently more off balance and easier to sweep than someone who's just trying to be heavy and pass.

Are there sport BJJ strategies that I wouldn't use? Yeah, I wouldn't butt scoot. I wouldn't voluntarily pull guard. But that's about it. If I ended up in butterfly, or X, or 50/50, or DLR, I would be very confident that I could get on top or break something before an untrained person could hurt me. I am confident in that because I'm able to get on top or catch a sub vs. decent MMA fighters without taking a lot of damage. In my own practice I have not found that most sport BJJ doesn't work just because punches are involved. Frankly, the biggest difference between fighting and sport is having to worry more about people just trying to stand up rather than consenting to play guard. The degree to which that changes the top game, especially passing, is hard to overstate.

 

[DaGenius]

I teach physed to students aged 17-19, and one class I used to give was beginner martial arts. Over 15 weeks I'd show them striking and grappling basics, and I covered basic chokes and armlocks. Not much stand up, but they did BJJ on the ground.

One year after I gave him the class I met a student who told a guy bumrushed him in a bar, so he caught him in a guillotine and choked him out. He had maybe 8 hours of grappling instruction under his belt and it was enough for basic self-defence.

Now if you're picking fights with pro MMA fighters or pirates dual-wielding knives it's another story.

Oh yeah! My instructor at the time used to be a bouncer as that was the only job he could get when he first moved to the United States. He drilled three chokes into my game for me.. standing mata leao, standing guillotine and standing arm triangle.

 

[Cappy Goodtime]

I disagree, what people wear generally will not be strong materail like Gis, what if im just wearing top, it wont work, the top will be flmisy, even if im wearing a jacket the material can stretch and is not as strong as a gi

Sport jiu jitsu isnt effective for a real fight because of strikes and there is no distance management. Roger Gracie said 90% of the sport techniques were usless, if your at the bottom and your reaching for a grip or something or your at a distance where he is sat up, he will punch you and you cant do ur sport techniques unless u can controll the distance i guess

Ground and pound is the most effective strategy, its easy and does a lot of damage. And mainly, all it takes is that one sec punch to ko your opponent in which a submission will take longer

Here's a fun trick for you to try. Get a friend wearing a t-shirt, mount them, pull their t-shirt up over their belly, go for a cross choke but instead of just shoving your hand in the collar, grab all of the bunched up material. Is this something I would be looking for in a fight? Not necessarily, but don't go around thinking you're so much smarter and safer than you truly are.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Here's a fun trick for you to try. Get a friend wearing a t-shirt, mount them, pull their t-shirt up over their belly, go for a cross choke but instead of just shoving your hand in the collar, grab all of the bunched up material. Is this something I would be looking for in a fight? Not necessarily, but don't go around thinking you're so much smarter and safer than you truly are.

I've literally seen a guy cross choke a dude from guard who was only wearing a rash guard. It really doesn't require that much material, or that especially strong of material, to cross choke someone. Basically any collared shirt is going to be enough.

 

[JustTheTip]

I haven't been in a fight since training BJJ but I have trained with plenty of white belts who got into streetfights all the time and I heard corroborated stories of them taking down and choking much larger opponents every weekend.
My first month in BJJ I used to go neck and neck with another beginner white belt who was really unathletic but trained a few months more than me. One day he got cheapshotted by a much larger Hells Angel and instinctively took him down and rear naked choked him to sleep.
When training, it is easy to overestimate untrained people's instincts and ability. Understand that most of them aren't even considering defending a takedown and the natural inclination when taken down is to turn around, put both hands on the floor and get up as soon as possible. It is stupid easy to take the back of an untrained person once on the ground.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

Once you strip away all the marketing, propaganda and flashy moves like breimblo etc what is ACTUALLY effective in a street fight?

I'm still a white belt but from guard I can *maybe* see how kimura can be effective as untrained people generally won't keep thier arms tucked in.... armbars... maybe as well if your quick. Triangle chockes to me seem like an invitation to get slammed to the floor.

My top game sucks even more than my bottom game, so no idea there aside from Riding up high off thier hips and wailing away at thier face....

Taking the back seems like a no brainer if you can get there. But even untrained people will know what your trying to do and can tuck thier Chins in and avoid chokes long enough for s fight to end or restart

Your thoughts ?

I'd slow down on the assumptions of what will and won't work in a street fight when you are still learning the moves yourself. It is literally impossible to get slammed while putting someone in a triangle when you know what you are doing. It unbelievably easy and something I do regardless of whether or not they threaten me with a slam.....you hook the leg with your arm. I hook the arm first to help secure the angle and it gives me a straight armbar option as well as finishing the triangle, but mostly, it secures the angle so that I'm attacking the carotid arteries with a stomp and curling action of my leg as oppose the being squared up and squeezing my thighs together and having to pull the head down. THIS, a squared up triangle, is a way you "can" get slammed. If you hold on to it when he starts to stand instead of adjusting angle and hooking leg, but I simply get the angle every time. Its a stronger, more effective triangle. The leg is always there to hook if they try and stand up.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

I think TS is overestimating the average Joe's ability to defend against grappling techniques.
.

This is called the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

I've literally seen a guy cross choke a dude from guard who was only wearing a rash guard. It really doesn't require that much material, or that especially strong of material, to cross choke someone. Basically any collared shirt is going to be enough.

This is essentially what I taught for an Ezekiel I modified to work on t-shirts.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Displays of weakness don't desecalate, they invite heyenas to attack.

The small subset of the population who spend a lot of time in the bjj bubble may have a skewed perception of it, but in general, sitting down on the ground is a display of weakness.

When perceived danger is reduced, when people feel confident they can get away with something, they get more frisky, not less.

You sit and butt scoot, what is your opponent going to do? For a sport BJJ guy with limited takedowns, that engagement would be right in your comfort zone.

 

[freakroor]

arm drag, take the back , choke.


takedown, pass guard, top control.


these are what you need to get good at for a random street fight

 

[powerBJJ]

love that video, fav part is the punches to the back of the head.

i would have chocked him out

 

[powerBJJ]

Ineffective: Butt scooting

edit* most effective: butt scooting

 

[Orion]

When training, it is easy to overestimate untrained people's instincts and ability. Understand that most of them aren't even considering defending a takedown and the natural inclination when taken down is to turn around, put both hands on the floor and get up as soon as possible. It is stupid easy to take the back of an untrained person once on the ground.

Agreed. I actually think a lot of these discussions are silly in the sense that we often forget just how incapable the average Joe is. We're so used to training with other people that train and working on techniques that we forget the average joe *maybe* goes to the gym a couple times a week (and most don't), but besides that they have virtually zero physical activity let alone combat. I saw a guy on reddit say he isn't sure if he could win a street fight despite being a brown belt in BJJ and having practiced muay thai for 6 years....what?

The average guy picking a fight will have no clue what to do in 99% of situations a trained grappler could present to him. Shooting a blast double alone would likely be the end of the fight in a lot of cases. The first time I ever had a community college wrestler blast double me it felt like I hit in the chest by a sledgehammer. In the time it took my brain to recover from the impact he could've easily had me mounted and been blasting my face into the floor. Locking a high elbow guillotine on a guy trying to tackle you would be just as devastating.

While I think there are some scary situations that can arise (running into someone with freak strength or on PCP), most people aren't going to have the slightest answer for any techniques a blue belt+ that trains on the regular can offer. Hell, I think most 6 month white belts could even trash most in a fight.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

I disagree, what people wear generally will not be strong materail like Gis, what if im just wearing top, it wont work, the top will be flmisy, even if im wearing a jacket the material can stretch and is not as strong as a gi

Sport jiu jitsu isnt effective for a real fight because of strikes and there is no distance management. Roger Gracie said 90% of the sport techniques were usless, if your at the bottom and your reaching for a grip or something or your at a distance where he is sat up, he will punch you and you cant do ur sport techniques unless u can controll the distance i guess

Ground and pound is the most effective strategy, its easy and does a lot of damage. And mainly, all it takes is that one sec punch to ko your opponent in which a submission will take longer

Nonsense, I have choked multiple people with regular o' T-Shirts. In fact, I had a drunk friend say something really similar to what you said and I told him there is pretty much nothing he could do to stop me from taking his back and choking him with the shirt he was wearing. Of course, him being drunk, he didn't believe it and I proceeded to do exactly what I said I would do. (Picture someone took of it when it happened included)

All you need to do is bundle the shirt in your hand. What you are saying is true for TRAINING. The material wouldn't be good for repeated chokes over and over throughout the day/week. But one choke, absolutely it is fine. I've done training videos where one shirt lasted the whole training session.

 

[Thycidides]

TS should do some mma sparring and or compete in BJJ. What ever he does in those scenarios is likely what he will do in a street fight.

 

[aunshi189]

love that video, fav part is the punches to the back of the head.

i would have chocked him out

A downside to BJJ there is that you probably don't want to destroy a guy's knee with a heelhook over a basketball argument.

 

[powerBJJ]

A downside to BJJ there is that you probably don't want to destroy a guy's knee with a heelhook over a basketball argument.

i agree thats why i said choke him out not break something

 

[aunshi189]

i agree thats why i said choke him out not break something

Good point, more a criticism of the guy in the vid than BJJ itself.

 

[SummerStriker]

i agree thats why i said choke him out not break something

I don't recommend that either. I think there is some risk of a choke out being taken as lethal force. If someone shot you, they might have a case for defending themselves in court.

Almost as bad, some people get up from a choke out unhurt, embarrassed and more angry. If they don't get up at all, you have bigger problems.

If the fight is an honest bare knuckle fight between two guys and you get a dominant position, most people most of the time can be calmed down by pinning them and having a conversation from the dominant position, so long as what you say doesn't shame them in a way that demands retaliation.

Save the chokes and breaks for life and death situations. Don't spend them during monkey dances.

Even when pinning someone, take serious the possibility that you can be suffocating them.

 

[powerBJJ]

I don't recommend that either. I think there is some risk of a choke out being taken as lethal force. If someone shot you, they might have a case for defending themselves in court.

Almost as bad, some people get up from a choke out unhurt, embarrassed and more angry. If they don't get up at all, you have bigger problems.

If the fight is an honest bare knuckle fight between two guys and you get a dominant position, most people most of the time can be calmed down by pinning them and having a conversation from the dominant position, so long as what you say doesn't shame them in a way that demands retaliation.

Save the chokes and breaks for life and death situations. Don't spend them during monkey dances.

Even when pinning someone, take serious the possibility that you can be suffocating them.

i feel like a bare knuckle fight is gonna end way worse then someone getting chocked out.

if your not the aggressor and simply defending yourself as clear as this video, i don't see what the problem is.

if he started tapping, i would ease on the choke still staying in control to see what his reaction is.

but i stand by my statement