BJJ is for Unathletic Nerds, Fat Kids, Soccer Moms, 40 Year Old Dads, 100 lb girls, etc...

[spacetime]

Is the groundgame in BJJ the same as judo now? - does BJJ have pins and immobilizations, does judo have leglocks?

Leg locks are illegal in Judo but are allowed in Sambo, which is basically Russian Judo.

 

[Gorbag]

Leg locks are illegal in Judo but are allowed in Sambo, which is basically Russian Judo.

Russian judo is different from sambo, its a myth that high level judokas in Russia do lots of crosstraining in sambo.

The judo ground game is different from the BJJ groundgame as well and even if you don't see much newaza from top tournaments that doesen't necessarily mean that those judo athletes are poor in newaza. If you watch world champion chess players in tournaments you will not see much of the endgame either - that doesn't mean that they suck on playing it if they have to.

 

[spacetime]

Russian judo is different from sambo, its a myth that high level judokas in Russia do lots of crosstraining in sambo.

The judo ground game is different from the BJJ groundgame as well and even if you don't see much newaza from top tournaments that doesen't necessarily mean that those judo athletes are poor in newaza. If you watch world champion chess players in tournaments you will not see much of the endgame either - that doesn't mean that they suck on playing it if they have to.

The thing is you get good at what you do.... Take Japanese Karate and Korean Karate (later known as Taekwon-Do). They have the same basic kicks.. Now, does that mean that Japanese Karatekas kick the same level as Korean stylists? Hell no! My eyes bleed from watching ANY Shotokan Karateka perform side kicks in Katas. They don't have the mechanics down properly. Stiff legged, lack of full leg extension. This is all largely due to negligence in theory and training.

Are their kicks still functional? I guess, but they don't do nearly as much damage when executed in such sub optimal manner.

Just because Judo has the same submissions techniques doesn't mean that they are applied at the same level. I know from experience in Karate and Taekwondo that theory and study time matters...

 

[Pierced7681]

That is not a nice thing to say.
Has relson ever fought a five Dan judoka?

Relsons a warrior. He actually disowned royce for losing to hughes. I bet he's beat up more than a few judokas over the years.

 

[Gorbag]

Just because Judo has the same submissions techniques doesn't mean that they are applied at the same level. I know from experience in Karate and Taekwondo that theory and study time matters...

Lol, are you serious? Same level for what? Judo submissions work best within the context of the fast paced judo ground game and more slower positional setups may be better in high level jiujitsu. They are playing different games under different rules. What has the best carryover to MMA is another question though...

 

[spacetime]

Lol, are you serious? Same level for what? .

I guess the most appropriate test would be some sort of freestyle-grappling, not ultra-restrictive Olympic Judo rules.

 

[Gorbag]

I guess the most appropriate test would be some sort of freestyle-grappling, not ultra-restrictive Olympic Judo rules.

You just want a ruleset close to BJJ to "prove" some obscure irrelevant point here. I have already clearly demonstrated by posting video's that judokas can submit BJJ blackbelts even under BJJ rules so what more is to be said?

The IJf judo rules is that if you want to continue on the ground then you must engage and progress in attacking. If one of the competitors doesn't want to engage or manage to stall then they will be reset to standing. Often a judoka in a dominant postion will not engage on the ground, this is not always due to the rules as such but due to strategy.

 

[Pierced7681]

You just want a ruleset close to BJJ to "prove" some obscure irrelevant point here. I have already clearly demonstrated by posting video's that judokas can submit BJJ blackbelts even under BJJ rules so what more is to be said?

The IJf judo rules is that if you want to continue on the ground then you must engage and progress in attacking. If one of the competitors doesn't want to engage or manage to stall then they will be reset to standing. Often a judoka in a dominant postion will not engage on the ground, this is not always due to the rules as such but due to strategy.

Which is exactly why they have weaker newaza than bjj grapplers. They train for a specific ruleset that doesn't allow for a lot of ground work.

Bjj and catch wrestling is where it's at if you want to be technically proficient at grappling.

 

[Robocok]

You can't strike me if you can't catch me. Striking is useless without an extensive running background

 

[Gorbag]

Which is exactly why they have weaker newaza than bjj grapplers. They train for a specific ruleset that doesn't allow for a lot of ground work.

High level judokas have generally better judo newaza and BJJ grapplers are also training for a specific ruleset. I have been to judo training camps where we did 2.5 - 3 hours of newaza in the morning and 1.5 - 2 hours of standing randori at night, what does that indicate? Even if some judokas suck on the ground(they usually are bad standing as well!) doesn't mean that everybody does. It all depends.

 

[lechien]

Relsons a warrior. He actually disowned royce for losing to hughes. I bet he's beat up more than a few judokas over the years.

So it is a no I guess.

If you cross train, I think your views on BJJ would change a lot more.

 

[Darwinambrosius]

Lol, are you serious? Same level for what? Judo submissions work best within the context of the fast paced judo ground game and more slower positional setups may be better in high level jiujitsu. They are playing different games under different rules. What has the best carryover to MMA is another question though...

That guy's a troll lol

 

[Pierced7681]

So it is a no I guess.

If you cross train, I think your views on BJJ would change a lot more.

I don't know Relsons comp record other than he was undefeated for 22 years before passing the family championship to rickson.

I started out training under a Japanese jiu jitsu bb/judo brown belt. I left the club after a year cause the newaza was garbage.

I joined a real bjj club and got the shit beat out of me for almost three years before finally getting my blue belt. After I got my blue belt I went back to Japanese jiu jitsu/judo club and tapped out the instructor to get some revenge.

I also cross trained at an mma club for 7 years under a high
Level catch wrestler/bjj purple belt.

I'm now retired with a herniated disc in my back and a right arm I can't fully extend.

 

[lechien]

That sounds like a story for a movie: you went back and tapped out your instructor to get some revenge.

 

[Pierced7681]

That sounds like a story for a movie: you went back and tapped out your instructor to get some revenge.

It's a true story, the instructor was a douche tma guy from holland who liked to take liberties on brand new white belts.

I went back to the club for a class and subbed him in front of everyone and then never went back.

 

[maddog7]

I don't know Relsons comp record other than he was undefeated for 22 years before passing the family championship to rickson.

...

Do you think 22 years undefeated is better or worse than Rickson's 400-0 record?

 

[maddog7]

@Pierced7681

I'm still waiting for an answer by the way.

Is Travis Stevens a Judoka who tapped out a high level bjj black belt or is he a legitimate bjj black belt who got tapped out in Judo?

 

[spacetime]

You just want a ruleset close to BJJ to "prove" some obscure irrelevant point here. I have already clearly demonstrated by posting video's that judokas can submit BJJ blackbelts even under BJJ rules so what more is to be said?
.

I have shown you Chuck Norris openly state that despite being a Judo black belt back in the day, when it was much stricter to get black belts, and having Gene Lebell as an informal instructor, Norris was a quote: "White belt" grappling with a BJJ instructor who was a senior citizen....

 

[lechien]

Which is exactly why they have weaker newaza than bjj grapplers. They train for a specific ruleset that doesn't allow for a lot of ground work.

Bjj and catch wrestling is where it's at if you want to be technically proficient at grappling.

I thought grappling is throwing as well.

Well anyway, I also teach judokas and I think the one that do well in judo will do well in BJJ competition in general.

We call them the hybrids.

It is more the individuals than the art.

 

[Hotora86]

It's a true story, the instructor was a douche tma guy from holland who liked to take liberties on brand new white belts.

I went back to the club for a class and subbed him in front of everyone and then never went back.

Did he file a police report?

BTW this is especially funny to me since I went the same road (TMA - BJJ - MMA - TMA) but when I returned for a few classes out of nostalgia I did not do so to tap my old sensei.