BJ Penn vs Eddie Alvarez in 2008-2009 - who would've won?

Canned Tuna said:
Eddie wasn't that much better of a striker than Diego in 2008. I don't think the power difference is that big of a factor because neither of them hit hard enough to finish the other back then.
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I really don't see much difference between Eddie of today and Eddie back then....
 
AimedWithV said:
I really don't see much difference between Eddie of today and Eddie back then....
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Eddie Alvarez had a great fluke win against RDA who was pressing him and putting his back against the cage from the first second on. People saw ConMan smoke Eddie and they have played him up since.

Eddie won two incredibly underwhelming split-decisions against Pettis and Gilbert before he Matt Serra'd RDA. Look at what happened to Pettis and Gilbert after those two terribly unimpressive split-decisoin victories.

Eddie ain't shit. He should be 0-2 against Chandler. Definitely lost to Pettis but I'll give him Gilbert. Got a lucky NC against Poirier but got his ass kicked in the rematch. Gaethje was his foil. Excellent win.

That's about it for him. He beat the shit out of a washed up Aoki without his pants as well so maybe that counts.
 
OGfrom2007 said:
Eddie Alvarez had a great fluke win against RDA who was pressing him and putting his back against the cage from the first second on. People saw ConMan smoke Eddie and they have played him up since.

Eddie won two incredibly underwhelming split-decisions against Pettis and Gilbert before he Matt Serra'd RDA. Look at what happened to Pettis and Gilbert after those two terribly unimpressive split-decisoin victories.

Eddie ain't shit. He should be 0-2 against Chandler. Definitely lost to Pettis but I'll give him Gilbert. Got a lucky NC against Poirier but got his ass kicked in the rematch. Gaethje was his foil. Excellent win.

That's about it for him. He beat the shit out of a washed up Aoki without his pants as well so maybe that counts.
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So what about his winning streaks in the past? Before UFC and Chandler?

BTW I agree with most of the fight outcomes you mentioned here - except Gilbert and Pettis.
I actually saw him losing to Gil and barely, but beating Pettis.
 
AimedWithV said:
I meant, is Eddie now the same "Diego Sanchez"?
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AimedWithV said:
I really don't see much difference between Eddie of today and Eddie back then....
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I don't think Eddie has changed a ton, but I think his boxing has become a bit tighter over time. He's a little less reckless and his defense is a little better.

I think Diego's chin is depleted and he's slowed down more than Eddie has, so I think the gap has widened significantly.
 
AimedWithV said:
So what about his winning streaks in the past? Before UFC and Chandler?

BTW I agree with most of the fight outcomes you mentioned here - except Gilbert and Pettis.
I actually saw him losing to Gil and barely, but beating Pettis.
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I'm perfectly aware of the fact that Eddie beat the last LW title holders in WEC (Pettis), WSOF (Gaethje), DREAM (Aoki), UFC (RDA), Bellator (Chandler), and will likely grab the ONE FC belt. Won a belt in every organization he competed in.

That said, the fact that Eddie has had a fantastic career and BJ has had a terrible career by the same measure doesn't change the fact that BJ is a vastly superior martial artist prime for prime. We can never find out sadly. BJ is legitimately a tragic figure in our sport and it really bugs me that people wonder whether he could beat Alvarez. He's be an overwhelming favourite by my estimation but few give him that respect.
 
Your asking 2016-2018 fans about something they'd have no clue about.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
LMAO, this is hilarious.
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If you say so. Watch his fight with Joe Daddy. Diego has always been relatively slow, but he was throwing pretty good combinations and mixing in kicks, knees, and elbows pretty effectively. Diego was known for keeping the pressure on as the fight went on. Make him a bit faster and hit a bit harder and he's a lot like Eddie.

Diego has gotten a lot worse.
 
BJ has McGregoritis: would look unstoppable and then get bored by the sport and drift away. The only thing that motivated him was crazy challenges, like fighting GSP, holding two belt, fighting Machida, trying to get three belts, etc. It was just hard to tell who would show up, but from 08-9, he would have beaten any LW on the planet, and ironically weighed a natty 168 like McG.
 
AimedWithV said:
Masvidal has other problem. His problem are retarded judges.
He's a counter guy. He moves backwards. He does damage.
But judges think his opponent is the agressor. That's what happened with Iaquinta fight, for example
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Masvidal's problem is not doing stuff

He'll defend and dodge and make faces and then... not throw a counter. and he'll do that 4 or 5 times and then finally connect on one. And like it's all well and good but you need to throw if you want it to be obvious you're winning and he doesn't. The Iaquinta decision was bad but there are other fights, Benson for one lol where he could have won if he had just gone for it a little more and opted not to.

I think he thinks MMA is like boxing where defence is a scoring criteria. And it isn't. In MMA the reward for defence is you didn't get hit, but you don't get points for looking good defensively and he never turns his defence into offence he just kinda coasts, doesn't get hit, keeps it close and then sometimes they give it him and sometimes they don't
 
2008? wonder what PositiveBalance thinks...
 
BJ Penn easily.

Better boxer, better grappler, more power and better chin.

At LW, no one can completely gass out prime BJ Penn.
 
Canned Tuna said:
Eddie wasn't that much better of a striker than Diego in 2008. I don't think the power difference is that big of a factor because neither of them hit hard enough to finish the other back then.
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Yes he was, Diego was never more than an average striker with great pace, cardio and a great chin. I'm not trying to dis Diego cause he was much better back then but you are really underrating Eddie's striking if you're putting it at the same level as Diego's.

I do agree it's unlikely either finish the other but I think a 30-27 or 29-28 in Eddie's favor would be most likely, just based on the match up. Diego's biggest strengths are his cardio, pace and chin and Eddie matches him in two of those areas and Diego doesn't hit nearly as hard so his chin being weaker isn't much of an issue in that match up IMO.

I think it would be very similar to the Melendez vs Sanchez fight.
 
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OGfrom2007 said:
Diego has better takedowns, heart, jiu-jitsu, and chin than Eddie did back then. You have to remember that he outclassed Nick Diaz, Clay Guida, and several other guys back then. He was undefeated for a long time.

Diego would have beat Eddie no problem. Eddie was getting into life and death situations with guys way beneath UFC calibre.
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Those guys you're naming all have weak TDD or want to grapple. Eddie would be able to avoid the ground against Diego and out strike him similar to Melendez. Diego got takedowns by spamming them, not cause he had good takedowns.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Those guys you're naming all have weak TDD or want to grapple. Eddie would be able to avoid the ground against Diego and out strike him similar to Melendez. Diego got takedowns by spamming them, not cause he had good takedowns.
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Prime Diego was way better than Eddie. Made his name at welterweight. Eddie was getting jacked by guys getting overrated because they were exchanging sloppy hooks in Japan. Diego would have been a way bigger legend in DREAM than Eddie.
 
Canned Tuna said:
If you say so. Watch his fight with Joe Daddy. Diego has always been relatively slow, but he was throwing pretty good combinations and mixing in kicks, knees, and elbows pretty effectively. Diego was known for keeping the pressure on as the fight went on. Make him a bit faster and hit a bit harder and he's a lot like Eddie.

Diego has gotten a lot worse.
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I totally agree he's gotten much worse and was a top level fighter around 2008 but the fighters you keep using as examples don't fight like Eddie, most of them are primarily grapplers or strikers with bad TDD.
 
OGfrom2007 said:
Prime Diego was way better than Eddie. Made his name at welterweight. Eddie was getting jacked by guys getting overrated because they were exchanging sloppy hooks in Japan. Diego would have been a way bigger legend in DREAM than Eddie.
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No he wasn't, if you want to have a reasonable debate lets have it but neither one of them was way better than the other in the mid to late 2000s.

Diego would have gotten beaten by Kawajiri IMO, styles make fights.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
No he wasn't, if you want to have a reasonable debate lets have it but neither one of them was way better than the other in the mid to late 2000s.

Diego would have gotten beaten by Kawajiri IMO, styles make fights.
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It's funny because I think you're talking nonsense. Diego Sanchez back in the day was a decent welterweight and an elite lightweight. If you think Deigo wouldn't walk through Shinya Aoki in them days then you're ignorant.
 
OGfrom2007 said:
It's funny because I think you're talking nonsense. Diego Sanchez back in the day was a decent welterweight and an elite lightweight. If you think Deigo wouldn't walk through Shinya Aoki in them days then you're ignorant.
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Wow, you say something really ignorant then say i'm ignorant, ok time to add you to the troll list with Emjay.
 
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