BJ Penn is 16-10-2

1 of 2 people in the world to win a UFC title in two weight classes and he's not even top 50? Who's your #47?

It's depressing that new fans won't know how great BJ was. Without context his career looks much worse than it was.
 
Penn wanted to have good fights/opponents on his record, not good statistics.
 
Was a longtime fan but the way he came in looking like he was going to cry and his subsequent horrific performance i gave it up.

his performance was downright embarassing. 7 punches landed in 3 rounds? slow flicking jabs with no intention of actually landing? It was a disgrace to MMA


Randy Couture similarly has a record that isn't good yet he is well known and remains popular... because he still went out to win even when horribly overmatched against guys like Brock Lesnar who king kong punched him to oblivion or Machida who knocked his teeth out. He gave everything he had each time.


BJ got his paycheq. i guess that's all that matters.
 
knfprty said:
Penn wanted to have good fights/opponents on his record, not good statistics.
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Yea moving up in weight to beat up two one dimensional fighter in a couple gracies was great for his record. Moving up and losing to Machida, who wasn't even a huge name at the time just a top prospect, was also great for his record. Career defining moments.
 
snakeybizz said:
just let that sink in.... he's not even in my 50 greatest of all time...
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I agree Penn and Randy were given title shots coming off losses but for being a Champion in 2 divisions he's in my top 50. Randy is a shitty person watching his tooth get kicked out is still my favorite moment in MMA history
 
Lol. Not even in the FIFTIETH greatest of all time? What a joke. I challenge you to name just 30 high caliber legends of the sport. Go ahead. Take your time.
 
whimsical1 said:
I was around. I was unimpressed then as I am now. I thought he was the best at LW, but I viewed the LW division as very shallow. I viewed the BJ-hype as a little over-the-top.

And time has vindicated my initial impression.
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LOL... Brilliant logic... Yes... age will inevitably catch up to every fighter.. and I guess if you are waiting for them to fall, it will eventually put your batting average @ perfect...

I can't believe that I would be one to defend BJ Penn's legacy... as I find many of his diehard fans really annoying as hell.. but c'mon... the revisionist history on Sherdog is getting down right comical...
 
age will inevitably catch up to every fighter
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that wasn't 'age catching up to a fighter'

BJ went out with zero intention of winning. He is an all time great but his performance was fucking disgraceful and an insult to his fans. I was flabbergasted when I watched it, so I rewatched it this morning after the embers had cooled.

He had no intention of winning. He did nothing. Look how happy his family was after he got bloodily finished.

fucking embarassing.
 
I think who he fought and the classes he fought at say much more than his win/lose record. People will always hate no matter what. I have always been a BJ Penn fan, people love him or hate him for different reason but probably the most important reason is because he was that damn good back in the day. BJ tried to get by on pure talent many times and was his own worst enemy at times. If his heart and determination at times matched his natural talent, his record would look different than it does.

I was excited to get to see him fight again and was not surprised by the outcome of the fight. I do not understand the game plan, that is just baffling. I feel he could have put on a better fight than he did but I don't think it would have changed the outcome. It is time for BJ to move on with his life and enjoy whatever is next for him. Thank you for the memories! WAR BJ PENN!
 
the definition of fight finder fan
 
whimsical1 said:
I was around. I was unimpressed then as I am now. I thought he was the best at LW, but I viewed the LW division as very shallow. I viewed the BJ-hype as a little over-the-top.

And time has vindicated my initial impression.
Click to expand...

Every division was shallow then. Sean Sherk, Gomi, Florian, and Hughes were murderers back then.
 
snakeybizz said:
just let that sink in.... he's not even in my 50 greatest of all time...
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You're an imbecile then.

Couture is 19-11 and Tito is 17-11.

I guess those two and Penn must come in way behind such elite ATGs as Ryan Jimmo (23-4) and Alexander Volkov (22-4).
 
BJ's record doesn't reflect his skills or talent it reflects his IQ and laziness.

If the guy would of stuck to 155 his whole career he would of retired a top 5 all time goat.

But he was dumb enough to fight up all those times and dumb enough to keep all his yes men trainers around the whole time.

I think his fanboys claim his willingness to fighter larger men was a testament to his warrior spirit but I believe it was a reflection of him refusing to stay in shape in his down time between fights.
 
blackjackz said:
LOL... Brilliant logic... Yes... age will inevitably catch up to every fighter.. and I guess if you are waiting for them to fall, it will eventually put your batting average @ perfect...

I can't believe that I would be one to defend BJ Penn's legacy... as I find many of his diehard fans really annoying as hell.. but c'mon... the revisionist history on Sherdog is getting down right comical...
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You miss the point.

If you never thought a fighter was as good as his hype even as that hype is at its zenith, how is it "revisionist" to say "I was right, he never was as good as the hype suggested?"

I was never impressed (not then, not now) with BJ's wins over Diego Sanchez, Kenny Florian, or Sean Sherk. He dominated them, but they were not great fighters.

So, there's my argument: BJ was never as great as the hype-train suggested. His wins were against guys who weren't that good; when he faced talented guys, he lost. No revisionism there. Counter the argument (if you can).
 
Context is so critical for this stuff.

Couture's record win-loss record is trash, but he held belts on 5 separate occasions in two different weight classes. That's f'ing insane. Also, his last run with the belt was at 45 years old. Nobody has matched that kind of accomplishment that late in their career.

BJ was such a die hard fight nut that he walked away from the WW title to go fight in Japan because he could get more difficult fights there. This was after he took the strap from Hughes (who had defended the belt like 5x at that point and was the GSP of his day).

8 years undefeated at LW?

Also, rich, cute kids and his wife is stupid hot. BJ Penn may have lost his ability to fight, but he's winning life in a pretty big way.
 
JudoThrowFiasco said:
BJ's record doesn't reflect his skills or talent it reflects his IQ and laziness.

If the guy would of stuck to 155 his whole career he would of retired a top 5 all time goat.

But he was dumb enough to fight up all those times and dumb enough to keep all his yes men trainers around the whole time.

I think his fanboys claim his willingness to fighter larger men was a testament to his warrior spirit but I believe it was a reflection of him refusing to stay in shape in his down time between fights.
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I see a lot of truth in what you state here. He did seem to not like to stay in shape, I don't know that we can say that is the only reason he fought up. He build is such that he should have stayed at 155, I even thought that 145 looked like the right class for his body.
 
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