Economy Bitcoin Doubters, Come Eat Your Crow

That's only a 10% gain which is super easy to do. I gain over 20% just today. Bitcoin is up 60% this week alone. Buy and hold. It's that simple

50k into 55m is only 10% gain?????? I think you missed a few 0s.

What is this weeks price increase based on? Serious question all i know is that you will soon be able to trade futures but i don't see that justifying the movement.
 
You know who is actually making real money in this? Money that touches the ground anyway. Not pixie dust. Is the people charging all these fees like brokerages. Classic con shown brilliantly in Wolf of Wall Street. You are those suckers Leo sold garbage to. Mark Cuban said if you look around in a room and don't see the fool, the fool is probably you.

It is a ferris wheel they just want to keep you on cuz it brings them revenue.

Mark Hanna: *Fugayzi*, fugazi. It's a whazy. It's a woozie. It's fairy dust. it doesn't exist. It's never landed. It is no matter. It's not on the elemental chart. It's not fucking real.



Are you sure? All the Jim Cramer types call cryptocurrencies fraud. Are they secretly investing or what?
 
50k into 55m is only 10% gain?????? I think you missed a few 0s.

What is this weeks price increase based on? Serious question all i know is that you will soon be able to trade futures but i don't see that justifying the movement.
Oh sorry lmfao. 50k into 50 million my god. What a boss. But still what he did, a lot of people did. He bought some leading coins early on when they were super cheap and it turned into millions. But we're still super early on in the long term. By btc/eth/ltc and HOLD and you can see similar returns. Don't day trade. Buy and hold. That's probably all he did.
 
You wanna gamble for free? lol. Download robinhood app. All trades are free. never pay them a dime for anything. And if I refer you we both get a free stock. lol. Probably something cheap but I will take a free 5 bucks.

I consider the way I play the market to largely be gambling. It is fun. And I am up too.
i remember hearing about that app when it first hit the public and was interested in it. i forget what deterred me from getting it. but yes, i agree all investing is a form of gambling, despite the positive connotations used when talking about investing and the negatives used in gambling.

but yea i use bitcoin to bet on sports and play poker :) ill look more into robinhood again and let you know if i decide ill sign up
 
On my limited understanding i too see it as impractical for transactions simply because there is to much processing required per transaction.

That is why Steam is doing this. I mean the fuckin thing can go up or drop in value so quickly that if a transaction doesn't happen within a certain time, it doesn't count.

Valve has no control over the transaction fee, he said, adding that if bitcoin suddenly plunged in value, that would create more problems.

"When checking out on Steam, a customer will transfer X amount of bitcoin for the cost of the game, plus Y amount of bitcoin to cover the transaction fee charged by the bitcoin network," Chinn wrote. "The value of bitcoin is only guaranteed for a certain period of time so if the transaction doesn't complete within that window of time, then the amount of bitcoin needed to cover the transaction can change. The amount it can change has been increasing recently to a point where it can be significantly different."

“These fees result in unreasonably high costs for purchasing games when paying with Bitcoin."

The issue is that the Bitcoin price of a game can experience significant changes in merely a matter of minutes. As you can imagine, this can be particularly annoying for users that transfer a certain amount of the cryptocurrency, only to discover that this amount is no longer sufficient because its value has dropped.

“The normal resolution for this is to either refund the original payment to the user, or ask the user to transfer additional funds to cover the remaining balance,” Valve remarked on this conundrum. “In both these cases, the user is hit with the Bitcoin network transaction fee again.”

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2017/12/07/bitcoin-valve-steam-payments/

Like I said, the only people making real money on this. Cash on the ground. Is the people collecting those fees.
 
Oh sorry lmfao. 50k into 50 million my god. What a boss. But still what he did, a lot of people did. He bought some leading coins early on when they were super cheap and it turned into millions. But we're still super early on in the long term. By btc/eth/ltc and HOLD and you can see similar returns. Don't day trade. Buy and hold. That's probably all he did.

The guy now wants to put it all in term deposits (CDs) because he is very risk adverse????? Despite having over 99% of his net worth in cryptos at some point. People make no sense.

I personally would follow my gambling rules. Every time you triple it bank a third and start again.
Ie 100 to 300 take 100. 200left goes to 600 take 200. 400 left etc.

That is why Steam is doing this. I mean the fuckin thing can go up or drop in value so quickly that if a transaction doesn't happen within a certain time, it doesn't count.

Valve has no control over the transaction fee, he said, adding that if bitcoin suddenly plunged in value, that would create more problems.

"When checking out on Steam, a customer will transfer X amount of bitcoin for the cost of the game, plus Y amount of bitcoin to cover the transaction fee charged by the bitcoin network," Chinn wrote. "The value of bitcoin is only guaranteed for a certain period of time so if the transaction doesn't complete within that window of time, then the amount of bitcoin needed to cover the transaction can change. The amount it can change has been increasing recently to a point where it can be significantly different."

“These fees result in unreasonably high costs for purchasing games when paying with Bitcoin."

The issue is that the Bitcoin price of a game can experience significant changes in merely a matter of minutes. As you can imagine, this can be particularly annoying for users that transfer a certain amount of the cryptocurrency, only to discover that this amount is no longer sufficient because its value has dropped.

“The normal resolution for this is to either refund the original payment to the user, or ask the user to transfer additional funds to cover the remaining balance,” Valve remarked on this conundrum. “In both these cases, the user is hit with the Bitcoin network transaction fee again.”

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2017/12/07/bitcoin-valve-steam-payments/

Like I said, the only people making real money on this. Cash on the ground. Is the people collecting those fees.

Isn't that largely eaten by the costs of processing/mining?
 
i remember hearing about that app when it first hit the public and was interested in it. i forget what deterred me from getting it. but yes, i agree all investing is a form of gambling, despite the positive connotations used when talking about investing and the negatives used in gambling.

but yea i use bitcoin to bet on sports and play poker :) ill look more into robinhood again and let you know if i decide ill sign up

Difference is the gambling on average loses, investing on average wins.
 
Good read that explains why bitcoin is fundamentally flawed. Some have compared it to a religion. That comparison isn't far off.

Bitcoin is limited to 1mb of transactions per 10 minutes. This works out to be about 7 transactions per second. If more than 7 transactions are generated in a second, the 7 that payed the highest fees go through.

Also, the 7/sec applys to normal transactions with few inputs. The way the blockchain works, when you send bitcoin, your transaction includes where you got the bitcoin. Most transactions only have bitcoin from one or two sources. If you have a transaction that has many sources, it has to take up a larger part of that 1 mb block. Now you need to pay enough to cover the several transactions that could take place.

If you didn't pay enough for your transaction to get included, it waits in the mempool until there are fewer transactions, and it gets included. Eventually, if it doesn't get included in a block, it drops and the bitcoin is returned to your wallet.

another:

all completely valid points as to why bitcoin will not be a valid currency for a long while.

its too costly

it takes too long for transactions

it is a value store at most now as its just too much money and time to use effectively at stores.


one poster put is concisely:

People using bitcoin for its intended purpose is bad for bitcoin

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7hzl78/steam_is_no_longer_supporting_bitcoin/?sort=top
Meanwhile Visa can handle 47,000 transactions per second.
 
Meanwhile Visa can handle 47,000 transactions per second.
And the difference is traditional banking/computing systems have been around for a long time and bitcoin has only been adopted on a mass scale for 2-3 years.
 
Meanwhile Visa can handle 47,000 transactions per second.

and uses a lot less power. It is absurd how much electricity bitcoin uses. It is starting to get in the crosshairs of environmentalists.

. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projectsthat, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.

screen%20shot%202017-10-13%20at%20161107.png




This comment really sums up Bitcoin:

As the price of bitcoins skyrockets, there are fewer coins on the open market while the demand increases. The whole Bitcoin ecosystem acts as a positive feedback mechanism to inflate the price: Investers refusing to sell bitcoins because there is nothing they can do to get a better return on investment, new investors wanting in on the action, old investors and mining operations that must protect the price.
 
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and uses a lot less power. It is absurd how much electricity bitcoin uses. It is starting to get in the crosshairs of environmentalists.

. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projectsthat, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.

screen%20shot%202017-10-13%20at%20161107.png




This comment really sums up Bitcoin:

As the price of bitcoins skyrockets, there are fewer coins on the open market while the demand increases. The whole Bitcoin ecosystem acts as a positive feedback mechanism to inflate the price: Investers refusing to sell bitcoins because there is nothing they can do to get a better return on investment, new investors wanting in on the action, old investors and mining operations that must protect the price.
Bitcoin can only operate in the power structure it exists in, which is a fossil fuel based energy infrastructure. If the world would hurry the fuck up and get on renewables this wouldnt be a problem. Also the new crypto power ledger could have a role to play in solving this issue.
 
Are you sure? All the Jim Cramer types call cryptocurrencies fraud. Are they secretly investing or what?
If they haven't invested they should lose their jobs. If they have invested they should lose their jobs.

Half-trillion dollar industries don't pop up out of nowhere. Crypto is nearing that number and the writing has been on the wall for years.(not that it was for sure going to happen but that it very well could have- and has)
 
Bitcoin can only operate in the power structure it exists in, which is a fossil fuel based energy infrastructure. If the world would hurry the fuck up and get on renewables this wouldnt be a problem. Also the new crypto power ledger could have a role to play in solving this issue.
Proof of stake.

Google it.
 
Difference is the gambling on average loses, investing on average wins.
in general, agreed. but i was just emphasizing people dont view investing as a form of gambling, even though it is, despite being a positive sum game
 
Good luck trying to sell though. I keep hearing how difficult it even impossible it is to turn bitcoins back into dollars
AML laws+massive amounts of people trying to register on crypto exchanges.

It's not hard at all if you're already registered. But when I tried registering early this year it took me over two months to get approved. After that it's just bank wires baby
 
Bitcoin can only operate in the power structure it exists in, which is a fossil fuel based energy infrastructure. If the world would hurry the fuck up and get on renewables this wouldnt be a problem. Also the new crypto power ledger could have a role to play in solving this issue.
This is just not true.

Bitcoin's difficulty scales proportionally to the amount of hashing power available to the miners.

When bitcoin is creating a new block at a rate faster or slower than 1 every 10 minutes the difficulty will adjust.

Mining can be lucrative but the margins are still pretty thin considering electricity never really gets cheaper on scale

If bitcoin miners collectively are using too much power the energy companies will charge more and make it less profitable. They will stop mining bitcoin and be forced to leave the market place.

The difficulty will adjust to this new, lower, baseline of available hashes per second
 
So, after getting into Litecoin it went up 200%. Does anyone think this is the ceiling and if so, what's the next thing?
 
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