Bigger Playoff Choke Job: Harden or Ovechkin?

faustian said:
Hasn't been mentioned itt but Hardcan set a NBA yoff record with 12 turnovers in the series clinching elimination game 5 of the 2015 WCF. That's right, TWELVE turnovers in a single game lmao. Overall his statline for that series deciding game was:

14 points, 2-11 shaating, 6 rebunds, 5 assists, 12 turnovers

So Hardcan kinda has a history of choking hard in the biggest yoff games
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To follow up on this:

Hardcan also choked hard in the 2012 Finals to the tune of 12.4 ppg on 38% shaating for the series. I gave him a pass for it cause he was young and was a 6th man at the time but it turns out it was a sign of things to come. He was a very important player for OKC and his shitting the bed in the Finals is seen as one of the main reasons Blunder got rekt by Miami
 
TeTe said:
I just think when you compare sports, hockey is just about the last sport (tied with baseball) where you can blame a single player for a team not winning a title considering depth of rosters and average time on field/ice/court.

Basketball players (like the recent Harden bashing) I get... and even quarterbacks in the NFL I can see getting a lot of grief. Even a pitcher in baseball.. because they have so much control over the fate of an entire game.

But considering hockey is a four line game now and even the biggest names getting what, 25 minutes out of 60 on the ice, you really have to cut an entire team down to size in order to lay blame for failure.
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Quarterbacks have a bigger influence from a single position than any other in any team sport known to me. Basketball is without a doubt one of the sports where individual stars matter most, and I'd say of the major global team sports, speaking generally (not about specific American Football positions), that it would probably be #1.

You have to go all the way back to freaking 1994 before you get to an NBA Finals that doesn't involve at least one of these players:
  1. Lebron James
  2. Tim Duncan
  3. Kobe Bryant
  4. Shaquille O'Neal
  5. Michael Jordan
That's 23 seasons. For 23 freaking consecutive seasons one of these five men has made the sport's largest stage. Moreover, if we skip that year, the first year of Jordan's temporary retirement, we can add the previous three seasons with Jordan, meaning one of these five has showed up in the last 26 of 27 seasons. That lone season, 1993-1994, saw Olajuwon's Rockets take out Ewing's Knicks (coached by the great Pat Riley).

That puts us in the final season still in the 80's: 1989-1990. Well, you can run down that entire decade of NBA Finals with three players back to the 1979-80 season Finals:
  1. Isiah Thomas (Detroit Bad Boys)
  2. Larry Bird
  3. Magic Johnson
That leaves a measly four seasons post-NBA/ABA merger with no singularly dominant superstar. These guys swallow nearly the entire history of the modern league. Kareem was certainly great enough to be among these, but he couldn't achieve dynastic team dominance without Magic. So what do we have all-in?

At least one of the above 8 superstars have played in the NBA Finals in 37 out of the last 38 seasons.
 
Ovechkin has solid playoff stats. The choke narrative should apply to the whole team, not necessarily just him.

Not only are individual players less of a factor in hockey, but as a winger he's in the least important position of anyone on the ice
 
Foghorn Leghorn said:
Ovechkin has solid playoff stats. The choke narrative should apply to the whole team, not necessarily just him.

Not only are individual players less of a factor in hockey, but as a winger he's in the least important position of anyone on the ice
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What is the ranking of importance by position in hockey?
 
Obitchkin still has the longer career of choking but Hardcan is catching up. Hardcan is 4 years younger also.

If we are talking about this year specifically, then it is Hardcan easily. That game 6 performance was probably the worst single game performance from an MVP caliber player since LeBum's Game 4 in the 2011 Finals with 8 points in 45 minutes. Ovi just no showed game 7 but didn't outright play terrible. He did make a bad play that lead to the second Penguins goal though. He was basically invisible the rest of the game.
 
Harden did have a phenomenal choke job in Game 5 against the Spurs and then decided to not show up in Game 6.

It seemed that Harden forgot everything that had gotten the Rockets where they were this year, regressed and hogged the ball, shooting a shitty shot as the shot clock runs out.

However, I'm not going to complain about this season with Harden and the Rockets. I think they did the a pretty good this year in a league where it's seems only 2 or 3 teams seem to have a chance to win each year. They almost cracked into that group.

Unlike the other three major sports, creating parody in the NBA will almost be impossible due to the nature of the game being less of a team sport than the others.

That said, the Rockets should have beat the Spurs this year.... only to get crushed by Warriors like the Spurs.

lol
 
Madmick said:
What is the ranking of importance by position in hockey?
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hard to say. A hot goaie can win a cup on his own, but Centres are typically the point guards. they take the faceoffs, and generally play between the wings, but hockey has the least value in terms of forward positions.
 
MadSquabbles500 said:
Why you say that? Is because hockey is rougher sport, and come playoff time they all beat up?

I agree if so. Alex Ovechkin was injured throughout these playoffs. That hit from Kadri did him in.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/11/alex-ovechkin-playoffs-lower-body-injury/
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no, he says that because because as @Madmick pointed out, basketball is more reliant on individual performances. a Lebron like player can singlehandedly carry a team to the finals. hockey players take 40 second shits and play 25 minutes tops. its more of a team effort, so a player like Harden shitting the bed has much more influence on the outcome than Ovi
 
Madmick said:
What is the ranking of importance by position in hockey?
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A goalie is obviously extremely important (a bad save percentage for an NHL goalie is 90% of the shots being stopped).

The number one Centre as well as the first defence pair are crucial. A number two centre is also huge.

For Ovechkin, I'd say his position is about the 5th most important on his team. It's just that he happens to be one of the best all time at his position.
 
Foghorn Leghorn said:
The number one Centre as well as the first defence pair are crucial. A number two centre is also huge.

For Ovechkin, I'd say his position is about the 5th most important on his team. It's just that he happens to be one of the best all time at his position.
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I never really go this. I see forwards are all over the place all the time. I see left wingers playing in front of net like JVR. I see centers out in the corners. Only the defenders I see hanging out in the blue line and protecting net.
 
anyone remember this?

WYU4TlY.gif
 
Different beasts, but Ovi probably has the largest shadow looming over him than most super elite athletes in history, in Sydney Crosby.

Crosby has owned his soul since the Juniors. Junior Championship, Playoff head to head, Gold medals, and Stanley Cups. It's comical at how much Crosby has proven his superiority.
 
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