Big Guy shaming in BJJ

[Rod1]

your not a small dude, but you would be huge for a 135 pounder, but not so big to a 300 pounder...

It also depends on the size of the individual, its not the same to go against the tall guy that weights 220 than a small guy that weights 220, the smaller guy will feel heavier.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It also depends on the size of the individual, its not the same to go against the tall guy that weights 220 than a small guy that weights 220, the smaller guy will feel heavier.

mmmm... thats an interesting point, it would depend on how the person distributes his weight, I see your point, for example, your premise should apply not only to height but on body type, if the person has chicken legs and most of his weight is on the upper body, would he feel heavier than a person who carries lots of weight on his leg but not so much on his upper body...

its an interesting point you are pointing out....

 

[Rod1]

mmmm... thats an interesting point, it would depend on how the person distributes his weight, I see your point, for example, your premise should apply not only to height but on body type, if the person has chicken legs and most of his weight is on the upper body, would he feel heavier than a person who carries lots of weight on his leg but not so much on his upper body...

its an interesting point you are pointing out....

Well yeah, anyone can choke me out despite me being heavy because im tall because i also have a long neck and long arms which can be trapped, yet there are people that are built like ram man from heman with no neck and short and tick arms that may weight less than me but have short arms and legs and a big belly which makes closed guard impossible.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

UHW at wrestling class: Let's go Concrete Whale use your weight, this is good practice for us!

UHW at BJJ class: Take it easy Concrete Whale try not to crush, try to use technique not strength.

I do not endorse the ongoing pussification of BJJ with this shaming culture. Obviously you should not be going beast mode and ragdolling people 100lbs lighter than you but you also shouldn't be handing them pity wins, like that 340lb guy against the skinny teenager in the video, or permanently handicapping yourself. There's a place for flow rolling etc. but at the end of the day this is a combat sport and you should be trying to use all your advantages and be as effective as possible. And when someone is bigger and stronger than you you deal with it, no pity, use your grappling.

There's a big guy at our gym, not enormous but a solidly built 220, who learned early on that he could win gym rolls if he went at extreme intensity. So now he's a blue belt, and his game is just running around your guard and cranking lapel chokes after jabbing his knee into your stomach. His bottom game is exploding into pseudo half guard sweeps the minute he's on his back. it's a nice challenge to try and neutralize his attacks (I'm 155lbs), but that's the perfect example of a guy who'd benefit from not "using his size." Whenever he faces a good opponent in a comp, he loses because he finds that he doesn't quite have the technique to finish his sweeps, and guys with equal intensity don't shy away from his pressure like they do in the gym.

 

[RhinoRush]

Yep, happened to me all the time in BJJ, would piss me off.

I just laughed it off most of the time, some manlet getting all pissy because I treated him exactly how a manlet would be treated on the street if I got on top of him.

This BJJ attracts so many manlets because they think it will help them deal with bigger guys, then when they get stretched by a bigger guy they act like something went wrong. You're supposed to get wrecked by guys bigger than you, and as manlets, you of all people should know that.

 

[Ton]

This BJJ attracts so many manlets because they think it will help them deal with bigger guys, then when they get stretched by a bigger guy they act like something went wrong. You're supposed to get wrecked by guys bigger than you, and as manlets, you of all people should know that.

I sympathize with this argument, however if people got treated in the training room like they do in a street fight... well, there wouldn't be many people left training.

 

[lechien]

This BJJ attracts so many manlets because they think it will help them deal with bigger guys, then when they get stretched by a bigger guy they act like something went wrong. You're supposed to get wrecked by guys bigger than you, and as manlets, you of all people should know that.

Deal with bigger dudes that have already JJ skills!

Not really.

 

[jct]

If faster guys are allowed to use their speed, or flexible guys are allowed to used their flexibility, why are bigger guys not allowed to use their size?

In the context of bjj, speed and flexibility are generally absolute, while size and strength is generally relative. If some is really flexible and can put their leg behind their head, it is harder to pass their guard even if you can also put your foot behind your head.

When a bigger guy is using his strength and size against a smaller person, it won't work the same against a guy his own size or bigger. Since the op was discussing practice and not a competition, it doesn't really make sense to practice things that only work because you are much larger than they are (there could be times when it does, like if one or both of the guys are getting ready for an open weight competition etc).

Also, op didn't give a lot of info on the situation, but in bjj you train with a wide variety of people (some train seriously and compete often, some are hobbyists etc). In wrestling, you are generally practicing with teammates who are in similar situation.

 

[fanboysareevil]

Flexibility isn't generally, but speed is relative in a lot of situations.

 

[Concrete Whale]

(1) Large jujitseiros need to take it easy with the smaller players, but when mr 230lbs constantly gets paired up with 280-300lb guys that doesn't count, no mercy.

(2) Big guys need to try to pretend that their opponents are their size and develop an approriate game for that even though they are not and can not simulate it. Small guys want big guys to pretend that they are small by withholding strength and weight.

(3) As strength increases as the square and weight as the cube, pressure-based game does work against other big guys.

Seems like people are quite split between whether big guys should consistently refrain from using their weight/size/strength advantage or not (in a safe and controlled manner). So I suppose things will stay as they are.

The problem of big guys not being prepared for other big guys in comp because there aren't enough to train with is throughout all combat sports, except I suppose when you're at a very high level and can fly people in from anywhere. I don't think it's going to be solved by you pretending that your opponent is 60lbs heavier and 6" taller and you fighting a shadow. Seems like people are just using that as cover to be passive aggressive.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

I'm a medium sized guy, about 210. I don't take it easy on smaller people but I don't utilize strategy/techniques that only work with a size advantage. It's more for my own development then to be nice, because a roll spent just outbigging someone is a waste when I have to go with the 230-300 guys next and can't do any of that.

 

[jct]

Flexibility isn't generally, but speed is relative in a lot of situations.

There is rarely a situation in bjj when it is speed vs speed. Speed vs reaction, timing, or anticipation is more common. Also, speed is way overrated in bjj. What looks like speed is usually things like that, timing, anticipation, etc. It is very rare to see someone just run around someone else's guard because the other person couldn't move fast enough.

Can you give some examples where someone is doing something to their opponent where if the opponent were just as fast as they are it wouldn't work? I guess if a young athletic guy is training with like a really slow guy.

IMO, if that is the case, I'd say the same thing to that guy in practice, to use technique instead of just relying on being faster than your training partner.

 

[yetanother]

In the context of bjj, speed and flexibility are generally absolute, while size and strength is generally relative.

A battle between two huge guys is different than between two tiny guys.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

(1) Large jujitseiros need to take it easy with the smaller players, but when mr 230lbs constantly gets paired up with 280-300lb guys that doesn't count, no mercy.

(2) Big guys need to try to pretend that their opponents are their size and develop an approriate game for that even though they are not and can not simulate it. Small guys want big guys to pretend that they are small by withholding strength and weight.

(3) As strength increases as the square and weight as the cube, pressure-based game does work against other big guys.

Seems like people are quite split between whether big guys should consistently refrain from using their weight/size/strength advantage or not (in a safe and controlled manner). So I suppose things will stay as they are.

The problem of big guys not being prepared for other big guys in comp because there aren't enough to train with is throughout all combat sports, except I suppose when you're at a very high level and can fly people in from anywhere. I don't think it's going to be solved by you pretending that your opponent is 60lbs heavier and 6" taller and you fighting a shadow. Seems like people are just using that as cover to be passive aggressive.

I'm not a "big guy," but it seems like the challenge for bigger players is to recognize how their size plays into their development, for better and for worse. A common white/blue big guy behavior I see is when a roll starts on the ground, the big guy will disengage and flee backwards so as to create space for a running attempt at something that resembles a bullfighter pass. That may win you some gym rolls, but it's mostly impractical in a real match and precludes the big guy from learning more efficient ways of using his size to pass the guard.

But regarding issue #2, as a small guy I do think some big guys need to recognize that it can be painful and potentially injurious to roll with a big guy. That's not to say "ignore your size advantage and just play some small man's game that lets me beat you," but give some consideration before cranking the shit out of some little guy's neck unless you are legitimately trying to do a neck crank.

 

[rmongler]

There's a big guy at our gym, not enormous but a solidly built 220, who learned early on that he could win gym rolls if he went at extreme intensity. So now he's a blue belt, and his game is just running around your guard and cranking lapel chokes after jabbing his knee into your stomach. His bottom game is exploding into pseudo half guard sweeps the minute he's on his back. it's a nice challenge to try and neutralize his attacks (I'm 155lbs), but that's the perfect example of a guy who'd benefit from not "using his size." Whenever he faces a good opponent in a comp, he loses because he finds that he doesn't quite have the technique to finish his sweeps, and guys with equal intensity don't shy away from his pressure like they do in the gym.

If you have a guy whos despite 'technically' being such and such belt but for one reason or another can beat up on those belts, you just put him with better and better guys until you get parity.

If you don't actually have anyone that good, well, i guess you're just up shit creek then.

 

[Uchi Mata]

UHW at wrestling class: Let's go Concrete Whale use your weight, this is good practice for us!

UHW at BJJ class: Take it easy Concrete Whale try not to crush, try to use technique not strength.

I do not endorse the ongoing pussification of BJJ with this shaming culture. Obviously you should not be going beast mode and ragdolling people 100lbs lighter than you but you also shouldn't be handing them pity wins, like that 340lb guy against the skinny teenager in the video, or permanently handicapping yourself. There's a place for flow rolling etc. but at the end of the day this is a combat sport and you should be trying to use all your advantages and be as effective as possible. And when someone is bigger and stronger than you you deal with it, no pity, use your grappling.

I agree completely. It makes me sad when I see big guys who don't know how to be heavy and use their weight effectively because people have been telling them it's not technical to do so, or too mean to their training partners. That's a very important part of being a successful larger player, you need to practice it just like little guys have to practice using inversion to prevent the pass.

These days I just smash the shit out of everyone with no remorse. I make exceptions for women and children only. It's not sadism, but I'm not going to handicap my game because someone in a grappling sport isn't comfortable with pressure.

Older guys too, if they're obviously not able to keep up physically. We have a dude who is like 65-70 in our gym, I would never put heavy pressure on him. Mostly because I think that really would risk injury as he's not the most mobile person being that old. I'm pretty careful even with physically capable older guys, because they're just not going to have the same physical tolerance as a younger person (as in, they literally can't move their neck as much as a 20 year old so they might get injured by a heavy shoulder under the chin). When rolling with older people who are good, I try to keep it very flowy.

Also, people need to be very specific about injury vs. discomfort/pain. I know I cause intense discomfort when I pass heavy. Good. That's part of making the pass work. But I never injure anyone. No one has ever not been able to train the next day because I put my shoulder under their chin passing half guard.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Once.you hit 200 you are a big guy and can't pull he's bigger than me card

I'm about 205, my main training partner is somewhere between 240 and 260 (not really sure). It still makes a difference, though I'm pretty sure I've never asked him to use less pressure. It's a good learning experience, and if you can keep a dude ~50 lbs heavier than you off you you can keep a guy your own size at bay.

 

[berimBOWLoh]

I agree completely. It makes me sad when I see big guys who don't know how to be heavy and use their weight effectively because people have been telling them it's not technical to do so, or too mean to their training partners. That's a very important part of being a successful larger player, you need to practice it just like little guys have to practice using inversion to prevent the pass.

These days I just smash the shit out of everyone with no remorse. I make exceptions for women and children only. It's not sadism, but I'm not going to handicap my game because someone in a grappling sport isn't comfortable with pressure.

Also, people need to be very specific about injury vs. discomfort/pain. I know I cause intense discomfort when I pass heavy. Good. That's part of making the pass work. But I never injure anyone. No one has ever not been able to train the next day because I put my shoulder under their chin passing half guard.

you roll different with older guys??


i do.



ive been to many big gyms and you rarely see ppl 40-45+. Why?? because their bodies cant take the rolling you are describing on the regular. You will see as you get older. Once you get closer to 40 your body cant take those type of rolls regularly. Esp from ppl much bigger than you.

the smart older grapplers who want longevity will avoid ppl like you. Not in a mean way, just out of self preservation.

 

[Curly Peibce]

Just egotistical belly aching on the part of the guy getting smashed.

 

[Uchi Mata]

you roll different with older guys??

i do.

ive been to many big gyms and you rarely see ppl 40-45+. Why?? because their bodies cant take the rolling you are describing on the regular. You will see as you get older. Once you get closer to 40 your body cant take those type of rolls regularly. Esp from ppl much bigger than you.

the smart older grapplers who want longevity will avoid ppl like you. Not in a mean way, just out of self preservation.

Yeah, good point. Older guys too, if they're obviously not able to keep up physically. We have a dude who is like 65-70 in our gym, I would never put heavy pressure on him. Mostly because I think that really would risk injury as he's not the most mobile person being that old. I'm pretty careful even with physically capable older guys, because they're just not going to have the same physical tolerance as a younger person (as in, they literally can't move their neck as much as a 20 year old so they might get injured by a heavy shoulder under the chin). When rolling with older people who are good, I try to keep it very flowy.