BETTER CALL SAUL Discussion Thread v.3

[Peteyandjia]

Not just for that but it was absolutely a huge part of it. She looks the other way because of her feelings for Jimmy and her desire for that contract.

Kim could have told Mesa Verde that she could no longer be their counsel without getting into major specifics but she chose not to. She kept the client and then told Jimmy he needs to cover his tracks. That tells me all I need to know about her intentions.

She's as complicit in this as Jimmy is when it comes to what's happened to Chuck.

She's only being complicit after the fact, in covering it up, and that's to protect Jimmy. If she could go back in time, I don't think she would want Jimmy to do it, she would have tried to stop him if he told her the plan. Now that it's done, if Jimmy is caught he is on the hook bigtime. I honestly think Mesa Verde is the afterthought here. She was still ready & happy to go into business with Jimmy even when she thought she lost that client forever.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Ugh, I hate it when writers explain what they've done and define the motivations of their characters.

One the work is done, it's done, and it's up to the viewers to decide what's going on. We don't need God to descend from the heavens and hand us the tablets.

Especially in a show like this, where the story is a melting pot with different cooks/writers. Vince Gilligan himself has said that he thinks fans should come up with their own interpretations about a lot of things once it's out there.

 

[Peteyandjia]

When I was watching the copy scene with Chuck & Ernie, once I saw that Jimmy was watching I called that Chuck was going to collapse & possibly die in front of him.

I have a witness who was watching the show with me in case anyone questions my e-cred

+ forged documents etc.

 

[Dizzy]

I really feel like she's doing this 90% for Jimmy and 10% to keep Mesa Verde.

If she rats on Jimmy, he's disbarred and getting prosecuted.

She's already past and nearly done with Jimmy's charisma. She's just trying to keep him out of jail now. If she could give back Mesa Verde and undo all that has happened regarding Chuck and the files, she would.

Nope, all she has to do is say that she's withdrawing for personal reasons. She has no obligation to tell them why or rat out Jimmy in any way.

She chooses to keep them and then help cover it up.

 

[Dizzy]

She's only being complicit after the fact, in covering it up, and that's to protect Jimmy. If she could go back in time, I don't think she would want Jimmy to do it, she would have tried to stop him if he told her the plan. Now that it's done, if Jimmy is caught he is on the hook bigtime. I honestly think Mesa Verde is the afterthought here. She was still ready & happy to go into business with Jimmy even when she thought she lost that client forever.

Again, she has no obligation to turn in Jimmy to anyone. There is literally nothing stopping her from removing herself from Mesa Verde other than she wants the contract.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Nope, all she has to do is say that she's withdrawing for personal reasons. She has no obligation to tell them why or rat out Jimmy in any way.

She chooses to keep them and then help cover it up.

They won't go back to HHM anyway. They'll just go to another firm. The damage is done. Plus that would just confirm it for Chuck and light twice the fire under him. It corroborates his theory.

Sure, she'd rather keep Mesa Verde than not keep them. But she can't even give them back to HHM now, if she wants.

 

[Loiosh]

I couldn't disagree more. I wonder where these blinders have come from in regards to Kim.

We see her reveling in con jobs that they pull together, then we see her scolding Jimmy time and time again when he's with another law firm for even just bending the rules. Why? Because her reputation is on the line.

Maybe it's because I've been Kim. I stepped in and stopped HR from firing a manager that two vice presidents wanted gone. I then spoke to the manager and explained that I had stopped the bullet, and that he had to either resign immediately, or follow my instructions exactly, or it would cost him and me. He agreed to follow my instructions, and then proceeded to ignore them entirely. He was fired, and it cost me all the rest of my political capital. A few months later I tried to stop those same vice presidents from firing another manager and when I tried to step in I was laughed out of HR.

Kim obviously takes her career very seriously, and she put her name on the line for him. She told him in no uncertain terms what would happen to her if he betrayed that trust, he betrayed it anyways, and it cost her the career she had put everything into. When he offered to help her she told him absolutely not, and went about fixing it by the book.

Then we see her turn a blind eye to him breaking the law when it lands her Mesa Verde and actually become complicit in indirectly saying "hey, maybe you should clean up any evidence."

The writers also went to great lengths to have Kim explain what would happen to Jimmy if Chuck's claims were true. When she then stood by Jimmy, I took it as her shielding him, which was a completely reasonable line. The fact that Gould is saying "naw, she just greedy" doesn't change the way I saw it or how I feel about it. Gould owns what she does next, not what she has already done. It's like the scene with Jaime and Circe, they didn't intend it to be rape, but they gave us a rape, no question.

I thought everything he said has been very well established by her character.

I think what he said was another possibility, and he shouldn't have said anything at all. I was literally waiting for the next episode to see what Kim does about the account, now I guess I already know.

Part of me hopes he's just faking you guys out.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

I've GOT to disagree.
Jimmy fashioned his whole professional life after Chuck. He wanted to be like Chuck. He got his degree, passed the bar, started out in the mailroom and embraced the grind. Then when Jimmy puts in the work and lands a landmark case for the firm, Chuck decides that "You're not good enough."

Chuck stabbed his brother in the back because he felt that Jimmy wasn't up to his standard when everyone else thought that Jimmy was bringing the heat. Whenever Chuck has an "episode", who's there? JIMMY.

He worships the ground that Chuck walks on and Chuck stabbed him in the back in the first season.

Im not defending Chuck , i just think Jimmy went even lower , what Chuck did to Jimmy doesn't justify what Jimmy did to Chuck

 

[Peteyandjia]

Again, she has no obligation to turn in Jimmy to anyone. There is literally nothing stopping her from removing herself from Mesa Verde other than she wants the contract.

That would put the spotlight on Jimmy, and lend credence to any kind of further action Chuck would take against him.

 

[Dizzy]

They won't go back to HHM anyway. They'll just go to another firm. The damage is done. Plus that would just confirm it for Chuck and light twice the fire under him. It corroborates his theory.

Sure, she'd rather keep Mesa Verde than not keep them. But she can't even give them back to HHM now, if she wants.

This has nothing to do with her turning a blind eye to Jimmy breaking the rules for her own gain.

Who cares if they go to another firm? What damage has been done? To who? Chuck had zero proof that Jimmy committed forgery.

She wants that client more than anything and she's willing to accept that Jimmy broke the law to keep them.

 

[Loiosh]

I don't I think it's great. Puts all the arguments to rest and lets us understand the characters better.

The discussions are half of the fun.

 

[BisexualMMA]

This has nothing to do with her turning a blind eye to Jimmy breaking the rules for her own gain.

Who cares if they go to another firm? What damage has been done? To who? Chuck had zero proof that Jimmy committed forgery.

She wants that client more than anything and she's willing to accept that Jimmy broke the law to keep them.

The damage has been done to Chuck and HHM. Can't be undone without sacrificing Jimmy at the altar.

 

[Dizzy]

That would put the spotlight on Jimmy, and lend credence to any kind of further action Chuck would take against him.

No it wouldn't. Chuck had absolutely no proof lol. He admits it to Kim. She knows her and Jimmy can get away with it. She then hints to Jimmy that he should make sure there are no loose ends, just in case.

 

[Loiosh]

Like I've said, it's such a conflicting show. It was nice to see Chuck not the one in power with Jimmy and Kim. It was nice to see him unravel in court and even lose it in the copy shop.

Then I feel like shit when he slams his head against the counter.

This basically summed up my reaction

It was a really good episode.

I loved how sure Chuck was, how he was right, and how he figured it out, despite everyone thinking he was crazy.

He's a great villain.

Especially because you feel for him when he collapses.

 

[Dizzy]

The damage has been done to Chuck and HHM. Can't be undone without sacrificing Jimmy at the altar.

Sacrificing him how?! He has no evidence lol, he literally admits to Kim that he has no direct evidence that Jimmy did anything wrong.

This is just making up scenarios at this point.

 

[Loiosh]

I really feel like she's doing this 90% for Jimmy and 10% to keep Mesa Verde.

If she rats on Jimmy, he's disbarred and getting prosecuted.

She's already past and nearly done with Jimmy's charisma. She's just trying to keep him out of jail now. If she could give back Mesa Verde and undo all that has happened regarding Chuck and the files, she would.

She's only being complicit after the fact, in covering it up, and that's to protect Jimmy. If she could go back in time, I don't think she would want Jimmy to do it, she would have tried to stop him if he told her the plan. Now that it's done, if Jimmy is caught he is on the hook bigtime. I honestly think Mesa Verde is the afterthought here. She was still ready & happy to go into business with Jimmy even when she thought she lost that client forever.

This is how I saw it.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Sacrificing him how?! He has no evidence lol, he literally admits to Kim that he has no direct evidence that Jimmy did anything wrong.

This is just making up scenarios at this point.

No it isn't.

It is obvious that Mesa Verde will never go back to Chuck and HHM unless they learn that Chuck was sabotaged.

There's no way to cause Mesa Verde to go back to HHM without exposing Jimmy. That's just logic.

So sure, Kim could refuse to represent Mesa Verde, but all that does is throw up red flags, plus it won't help anyone, other than the random firm that gets the Mesa Verde file.

I guess we just disagree about Kim's character.

 

[Loiosh]

Especially in a show like this, where the story is a melting pot with different cooks/writers. Vince Gilligan himself has said that he thinks fans should come up with their own interpretations about a lot of things once it's out there.

Gould should spoiler that shit.

 

[Dizzy]

No it isn't.

It is obvious that Mesa Verde will never go back to Chuck and HHM unless they learn that Chuck was sabotaged.

There's no way to cause Mesa Verde to go back to HHM without exposing Jimmy. That's just logic.

So sure, Kim could refuse to represent Mesa Verde, but all that does is throw up red flags, plus it won't help anyone, other than the random firm that gets the Mesa Verde file.

I guess we just disagree about Kim's character.

I think we're watching two different shows.

 

[method115]

The discussions are half of the fun.

I like the discussions as well but I also want to know and not be left just wondering. It's like the walking dead season finale. It didn't show us who died so now all we can do is talk about it and guess. Which is kind of fun but at the end of the day I want to know for sure who it was.