BETTER CALL SAUL Discussion Thread v.3

[BisexualMMA]

Enjoyed Kim in this episode. Watching her struggle with her morality. She knows Jimmy most likely did what Chuck accuses him of, but she still defends him. She wants that Mesa Verde contract badly. Just her angry look in the car and then starts hammering Jimmy's shoulder, with the Mesa Verde files loaded into the car. Great conflicted acting on her part.

Then later, without mentioning the whole scheme that Jimmy pulled, starts her comments to warn him that he better have covered everything. Can't remember her exact lines, but how she mentions how great a lawyer Chuck is, how he would be a powerful adversary, and how Jimmy would need to cover all his bases if he were to ever go up against Chuck.

Then Jimmy, without a word, gets up out of bed and you just hear him grabbing his car keys.

She's a a good woman.

Quality writing, requiring a quality actor to pull it off.

 

[hitcher]

Jimmy went too far in the last episode, that was far worse than anything Chuck has done to Jimmy imo

He has no boundaries, that will be his undoing

Mike is awesome, great character, really well written

How exactly did he go too far?

Agree with the Rest.

 

[benebox]

Yes Jimmy can be a fuck up and I do think by the end of this show he either ends up pushing everyone away or gets them killed in some way. However, Chuck is no saint and it shows he's a jealous prick who has no problem trying to sabotage Jimmy's success.

The whole losing his dad's business is hardly true, if you recall from the flashback, his dad was a horrible business man, giving things away or leaving the place unguarded so people had a chance to steal, letting everyone take advantage of him. That business was going down anyway. Jimmy taking money was besides the point, people were stealing it anyways, so he just took some for himself. Jimmy is more of a case of trying to do the right thing, but things end up going wrong in some way because he isn't afraid to break rules.

I get the impression that Chuck didn't want Jimmy near his law firm because he didn't want him to ruin all the hard work he has done over the years and just when he finally seems to be coming to grips with his brother becoming a lawyer at the firm he throws it away makes a mockery of everyone that has tried to help him in the process. But I do agree that Chuck can be a bit of a righteous dick and went about a lot of things in the wrong way.

However Jimmy trying to do the right thing is definitely a blurred line. He will go to long measures to help the people he loves but he will happily con and hustle innocent people for himself as well. Also just because other people coned his dad it doesn't justify him doing it.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

How exactly did he go too far?

Agree with the Rest.

Stealing those documents and tampering with them was way over the top , if caught he would be disbarred and facing jail time , everything he had done up to that point had bent the rules not broken them , we now know there are very few lines Jimmy won't cross .

 

[ucunc156]

I don't she did that just for Mesa Verde, I think she did it for Jimmy. I think there is a part of her that does want to defend him the way he defended her.

Agreed. Mesa Verde was a nice added bonus, but I think the thing almost all of us would do in that situation, is lie to protect our loved one.

 

[Dizzy]

Lol, Kim is against Jimmy's behavior until it massively benefits her career.

 

[Loiosh]

Lol, Kim is against Jimmy's behavior until it massively benefits her career.

That's not entirely true. She absolutely loved the scams he was playing in bars.

This is just the first time she let it touch the law and her career, and even then she was really upset. She stood by Jimmy but did not approve of what he did.

 

[Dizzy]

That's not entirely true. She absolutely loved the scams he was playing in bars.

This is just the first time she let it touch the law and her career, and even then she was really upset. She stood by Jimmy but did not approve of what he did.

You think she stands by Jimmy if this isn't in any way helping her? Or then tell him to cover his tracks?

Of course she's conflicted but at the end of the day she is keeping Mesa Verde and helping cover it up. If her moral compass was so strong she could very easily give up that client.

 

[Dizzy]

From Peter Gould, not much of a "trying to protect a loved one" in her motives here.

If Kim were a goody-two-shoes. If she were a perfectly moral person, she probably would go to Mesa Verde and resign from the case for personal reasons. But she wants this client. She has worked for it. Jimmy has compromised her. He put her in a position where she can’t resist taking the tainted fruit, so to speak.

 

[Loiosh]

You think she stands by Jimmy if this isn't in any way helping her? Or then tell him to cover his tracks?

Of course she's conflicted but at the end of the day she is keeping Mesa Verde and helping cover it up. If her moral compass was so strong she could very easily give up that client.

I absolutely, positively do, in fact I think it would be easier for her if she saw no benefit. I think it's killing her that she had to betray the law to defend Jimmy. When it comes to her career, it has been all about doing it by the book, on her own, no short cuts. Chuck even banked on her altruism because he didn't realize how much she cares about Jimmy, he once again underestimated the power of Jimmy's charisma.

She's been the best friend anyone has ever had in the Breaking Bad universe.

 

[Loiosh]

From Peter Gould, not much of a "trying to protect a loved one" in her motives here.

Ugh, I hate it when writers explain what they've done and define the motivations of their characters.

One the work is done, it's done, and it's up to the viewers to decide what's going on. We don't need God to descend from the heavens and hand us the tablets.

 

[Strychnine]

Jimmy went too far in the last episode, that was far worse than anything Chuck has done to Jimmy imo

He has no boundaries, that will be his undoing

Mike is awesome, great character, really well written

I've GOT to disagree.
Jimmy fashioned his whole professional life after Chuck. He wanted to be like Chuck. He got his degree, passed the bar, started out in the mailroom and embraced the grind. Then when Jimmy puts in the work and lands a landmark case for the firm, Chuck decides that "You're not good enough."

Chuck stabbed his brother in the back because he felt that Jimmy wasn't up to his standard when everyone else thought that Jimmy was bringing the heat. Whenever Chuck has an "episode", who's there? JIMMY.

He worships the ground that Chuck walks on and Chuck stabbed him in the back in the first season.

 

[Dizzy]

I absolutely, positively do, in fact I think it would be easier for her if she saw no benefit. I think it's killing her that she had to betray the law to defend Jimmy. When it comes to her career, it has been all about doing it by the book, on her own, no short cuts. Chuck even banked on her altruism because he didn't realize how much she cares about Jimmy, he once again underestimated the power of Jimmy's charisma.

She's been the best friend anyone has ever had in the Breaking Bad universe.

I couldn't disagree more. I wonder where these blinders have come from in regards to Kim.

We see her reveling in con jobs that they pull together, then we see her scolding Jimmy time and time again when he's with another law firm for even just bending the rules. Why? Because her reputation is on the line. Then we see her turn a blind eye to him breaking the law when it lands her Mesa Verde and actually become complicit in indirectly saying "hey, maybe you should clean up any evidence."

But we're to believe that what just happened was all because she cares about Jimmy? If anything she has shown that she is independent enough to be above his influence. Time and time again she does. She isn't falling for Jimmy's charisma here, she absolutely wants that client back and she's ok with the price she's paid in her morality to do so.

Ugh, I hate it when writers explain what they've done and define the motivations of their characters.

One the work is done, it's done, and it's up to the viewers to decide what's going on. We don't need God to descend from the heavens and hand us the tablets.

I thought everything he said has been very well established by her character.

 

[method115]

3 minutes in and Mike is now apparently a mutant that can appear suddenly out of clear, unobstructed desert to having a gun in your face the second you turn around.

lol not even going to lie when this scene happened I immediately thought of your post from the walking dead thread. This was a really really good episode with so much happening. I was surprised at how well Kim took everything but you can tell she's reaching her limit with Jimmy. She's gone from scolding him every time to not even wanting to talk about it anymore. I know it's not for sure but I'm pretty positive Chuck is dead here. How this is going to affect Jimmy is the interesting part.

 

[method115]

I've GOT to disagree.
Jimmy fashioned his whole professional life after Chuck. He wanted to be like Chuck. He got his degree, passed the bar, started out in the mailroom and embraced the grind. Then when Jimmy puts in the work and lands a landmark case for the firm, Chuck decides that "You're not good enough."

Chuck stabbed his brother in the back because he felt that Jimmy wasn't up to his standard when everyone else thought that Jimmy was bringing the heat. Whenever Chuck has an "episode", who's there? JIMMY.

He worships the ground that Chuck walks on and Chuck stabbed him in the back in the first season.

It's not even close. What Chuck did to Jimmy was just seriously fucked up. I can't believe anyone would think Chuck didn't deserve this (not hitting his head but the rest).

 

[method115]

Ugh, I hate it when writers explain what they've done and define the motivations of their characters.

One the work is done, it's done, and it's up to the viewers to decide what's going on. We don't need God to descend from the heavens and hand us the tablets.

I don't I think it's great. Puts all the arguments to rest and lets us understand the characters better.

 

[Dizzy]

It's not even close. What Chuck did to Jimmy was just seriously fucked up. I can't believe anyone would think Chuck didn't deserve this (not hitting his head but the rest).

Like I've said, it's such a conflicting show. It was nice to see Chuck not the one in power with Jimmy and Kim. It was nice to see him unravel in court and even lose it in the copy shop.

Then I feel like shit when he slams his head against the counter.

This basically summed up my reaction

 

[method115]

Like I've said, it's such a conflicting show. It was nice to see Chuck not the one in power with Jimmy and Kim. It was nice to see him unravel in court and even lose it in the copy shop.

Then I feel like shit when he slams his head against the counter.

This basically summed up my reaction

lol perfect my reaction was the same. I thought he was just going to get the cops called on him and arrested or pass out in the store. Not pass out and slam his head and possibly die.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Lol, Kim is against Jimmy's behavior until it massively benefits her career.

I really feel like she's doing this 90% for Jimmy and 10% to keep Mesa Verde.

If she rats on Jimmy, he's disbarred and getting prosecuted.

 

[BisexualMMA]

But we're to believe that what just happened was all because she cares about Jimmy? If anything she has shown that she is independent enough to be above his influence. Time and time again she does. She isn't falling for Jimmy's charisma here, she absolutely wants that client back and she's ok with the price she's paid in her morality to do so.

She's already past and nearly done with Jimmy's charisma. She's just trying to keep him out of jail now. If she could give back Mesa Verde and undo all that has happened regarding Chuck and the files, she would.