Best orthodox non-heavyweight kickboxer?

JustOnce

JustOnce

On Hiatus
Double Yellow Card
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
23,345
Reaction score
26,606
I made a thread about best kickboxer of all time and got some good responses.

If I ask for best orthodox kickboxer, I'd imagine I'd likely get most responses about Peter Aerts or maybe Hoost.

But who are the best orthodox non heavyweight kickboxer of all time that doesn't have muaythai background, in case people bring up Buakaw
 
Not Masato or Souwer btw, because I always felt Buakaw was better than both. I used to like Kyshenko but don't think his career took off like I thought it could.
 
So you've basically eliminated most of the top ten with your criteria, even excluding the HW...
 
I guess in short, a pure kick-boxer orthodox fighter who's non heavyweight and who's better than Prime Buakaw
 
JustOnce said:
Not Masato or Souwer btw, because I always felt Buakaw was better than both. I used to like Kyshenko but don't think his career took off like I thought it could.
Click to expand...
No muay thai background... no southpaw... no Masato no Souwer no Kyshenko... no one that is inferior to Buakaw (for example Holzken)...

There is no one left!!!

Maybe you can look into Robin Van Roosmalen,Holzken and Ristie but Buakaw was always better imo.

In fact, the top 3 best non-heavyweight kickboxers had a muay thai background:
1) Buakaw
2) Petrosyan
3) Sittichai
 
Kanka said:
No muay thai background... no southpaw... no Masato no Souwer no Kyshenko... no one that is inferior to Buakaw (for example Holzken)...

There is no one left!!!

Maybe you can look into Robin Van Roosmalen,Holzken and Ristie but Buakaw was always better imo.

In fact, the top 3 best non-heavyweight kickboxers had a muay thai background:
1) Buakaw
2) Petrosyan
3) Sittichai
Click to expand...

Petro doesn't fight anything like muaythai based fighter
 
JustOnce said:
Petro doesn't fight anything like muaythai based fighter
Click to expand...
He started out as a muay thai fighter and stylistically he is closer to thai kickboxers than moroccan, dutch and japanese kickboxers.
 
Kanka said:
No muay thai background... no southpaw... no Masato no Souwer no Kyshenko... no one that is inferior to Buakaw (for example Holzken)...

There is no one left!!!

Maybe you can look into Robin Van Roosmalen,Holzken and Ristie but Buakaw was always better imo.
Click to expand...

Arguably both Holzken and Ristie have a Muay Thai background too. Even RvR competed in Muay Thai before his Kickboxing career really picked up.

I mean there are a few examples of orthodox fighters without a Muay Thai background in the HW category (in particular the few Kyokushin guys like Andy Hug, Francisco Filho etc.) but a non heavyweight that's not from a Muay Thai background, not one of the listed fighters, and better than Buakaw? I can't think of anyone.

There are a few guys like Davit Kiria who come to mind but they're not better than Buakaw.

How about Cédric Doumbe? He's orthodox, not a HW and not from a MT background.
 
Last edited:
jtwarwagon4life said:
They do?
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I typed "arguably". I know some elitists like yourself will probably only consider someone to have a Muay Thai background if they trained in Thailand and competed in Raja or Lumpini for quite a while.

Andy Ristie started in Muay Thai and trained under Carbin, had some Muay Thai fights at the early stage of his career and was even still wearing the prajioud during his kickboxing career. His style is very unique and unpredictable but it still looks a lot like Muay Thai. I know this might not be enough for you to consider that a real MT background, but it is still something.



For Nieky Holzken it might be a bit more of a blur as he competed a lot more in Kickboxing pretty much from the start and his style is more like Dutch Kickboxing with good boxing combos and even some Kyokushin techniques here and there, but he still started in MT and had some MT fights and even won a couple European titles in MT.

It might not be as pure a MT background as someone like Buakaw, but it's still more than guys like let's say Cedric Doumbé, Andy Hug, Davit Kiria, Mark Hunt, Semmy Schilt, Raymond Daniels, Rico Verhoeven, etc.
 
Non-heavyweight fighter with no MT background who is better than Buakaw? lol

All Japanese Koshien guys from K-1 = not MT but still inferior than Buakaw
Tenshin = MT background plus still inferior to Buakaw
WW guys like Holzken, Cedric? = maybe no MT but still not as good as Buakaw
Top MW guys all have MT background
Spong has MT background

I guess nobody then.
 
Tayski said:
This is exactly why I typed "arguably". I know some elitists like yourself will probably only consider someone to have a Muay Thai background if they trained in Thailand and competed in Raja or Lumpini for quite a while.

Andy Ristie started in Muay Thai and trained under Carbin, had some Muay Thai fights at the early stage of his career and was even still wearing the prajioud during his kickboxing career. His style is very unique and unpredictable but it still looks a lot like Muay Thai. I know this might not be enough for you to consider that a real MT background, but it is still something.



For Nieky Holzken it might be a bit more of a blur as he competed a lot more in Kickboxing pretty much from the start and his style is more like Dutch Kickboxing with good boxing combos and even some Kyokushin techniques here and there, but he still started in MT and had some MT fights and even won a couple European titles in MT.

It might not be as pure a MT background as someone like Buakaw, but it's still more than guys like let's say Cedric Doumbé, Andy Hug, Davit Kiria, Mark Hunt, Semmy Schilt, Raymond Daniels, Rico Verhoeven, etc.
Click to expand...

You can train and fight in whatever style you want, you aren't a muay thai fighter unless you actually compete in muay thai. On the accomplishment side of things they are clearly kickboxers first and foremost, they never accomplished anything even remotely of note in muay thai.

Are you sure that was a muay thai bout? Were elbows allowed, were they allowed to actually clinch continuously, were takedowns allowed, etc.? I only ask, because fights take place all over the world, but especially in the Netherlands, which supposedly are muay thai, but aren't.

As for Holzken, I've only seen him compete in muay thai once and that was after he was already an established kickboxer. So, I'm kind of sceptical as to whether he started in muay thai or not. Again, there are lots of people out there who claim to have won muay thai titles but have just won bastardised kickboxing titles, or titles which go under the heading of "thai boxing" or some bullshit like that.
 
jtwarwagon4life said:
You can train and fight in whatever style you want, you aren't a muay thai fighter unless you actually compete in muay thai. On the accomplishment side of things they are clearly kickboxers first and foremost, they never accomplished anything even remotely of note in muay thai.

Are you sure that was a muay thai bout? Were elbows allowed, were they allowed to actually clinch continuously, were takedowns allowed, etc.? I only ask, because fights take place all over the world, but especially in the Netherlands, which supposedly are muay thai, but aren't.

As for Holzken, I've only seen him compete in muay thai once and that was after he was already an established kickboxer. So, I'm kind of sceptical as to whether he started in muay thai or not. Again, there are lots of people out there who claim to have won muay thai titles but have just won bastardised kickboxing titles, or titles which go under the heading of "thai boxing" or some bullshit like that.
Click to expand...

Well if according to you you need to actually compete in Muay Thai to be considered from a Muay Thai background, they actually both competed in Muay Thai.

Holzken even won some WFCA, MON and SIMTA titles. They might not be as prestigious titles as a Lumpini or Raja title but it still shows he competed in MT, not just trained it. You don't need to win a Lumpini or Raja title to be considered from a MT background, there are plenty of MT fighters who never achieved such a thing.

Your argument is like me saying Davit Kiria is not from a Karate background because he never won a big title in one of the main organisations. Hell I can't even find any of his Karate fights on youtube... Doesn't mean he doesn't have such a background.

Again, I'm not saying they're very representative of MT, just that they do have a MT background as they started in it, more so than a lot of other Kickboxers such as the ones listed in my last post who never really trained or competed in MT at all.
 
Last edited:
Pretty sure all that "ThaiBoxing" stuff from the Netherlands is basically just Kickboxing rules.

Holzken may have one or two fights FTR. Certainly wouldn't say he really competed in it seriously or came from that background though.

This has nothing to do with not being in Lumpinee so not counting, he just really hasn't been a competitor in FTR period.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,991
Messages
55,459,738
Members
174,787
Latest member
Freddie556

Share this page

Back
Top