Best boxing books

mozfonky said:
ya, they did it with the cinderella man too, they made max baer an asshole and his family was pissed. hollywood fucks up most of the bios it does, i don't even get excited about a new bruce lee bio or what have you because you know it's going to be all fucked up.
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I heard that about Baer. Honestly, reading the book, I saw a more even and careful account of his life. As I read the book I found myself sympathizing with Baer as much or more than Braddock haha.
 
wilddeuces said:
I heard that about Baer. Honestly, reading the book, I saw a more even and careful account of his life. As I read the book I found myself sympathizing with Baer as much or more than Braddock haha.
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baer was anything but a villain, in fact, his biggest problem was that with all his talent, he didn't take anything seriously, that and the schaff death pretty much ruined his chances. don't take my word for it, look up his interviews on youtube, usually, no one gets mentioned with ali as far as being a funny heavyweight champ, baer is one who sometimes people rate even funnier.
 
barney ross has a fairly recent bio out by douglas century, who is a good writer, haven't read the book but I just came across an old 50's movie on barney ross, watching it now. Monky on my back.
 
mozfonky said:
i read that sometime ago, i got to be honest, i have mixed feelings about those big time writers, mailer, plimpton, thompson and all the rest writing about Ali. I always felt it was exploitive, as people they were so different from ali and most fighters. I still liked and read their stuff and it was still great. I just felt what ali said sometimes, that if he was a loser, no one would care. I think he always felt that way and said as much to most of the cosells and journalists who clamoured to be around him.
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Eh, it's not that disturbing to think that big shot writers were more interested in great boxers than journeymen. Also, with his usual flamboyance Ali brought it on him. The fact of the matter is that Thompson and Mailer brought interesting angles (I haven't read the Plimpton piece, but the funny thing is that he's one of the characters in Mailer's The Fight) in the way they they talked about Ali. Mailer had such an ego himself that he couldn't stand riding his jock and didn't take some of Ali's horsecrap, in spite of admiring him. You feel it in the book. Thompson focused on how the late Ali was isolated by his entourage, and you feel in his piece how hard he worked to get to Ali, then to have him open up. Also, both knew their shit when then they talked about boxing itself.
 
mozfonky said:
tyson's book is great, but i never made it all the way through, the 75 percent i did read are fantasttic even though i can tell parts of it are plagiarized from other tyson books, still, it seems the anectdotes that do come from mike are pure and true, and funny and poignant, i liked it so much i bought his second book which i likewise haven't had time to read.

eubank would be a interesting read just because he's a true eccentric, maybe the punches made him moreso but he truly is a character, this morning i was watching him corner his son and the way he steps back in grand fashion after giving his counsel is just bizarre, wierd and funny, i always liked eubank and he was a helluva fighter.
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Part of the attraction of Mike's book was that it reads like he's saying it himself, from the heart, even if you disagree with his opinion at times. I felt some of it was a bit exaggerated; if you go by what he says he was barely training for some of his big fights. I definitely believe the part about how many women he slept with, it's a ridiculous amount.

Anything with Eubank in is instant gold! Yesterday before work I watched a bit of Eubank/Benn I. It's the first fight where the commentators were convinced he had a good chin and heart. Funny as now that's what he's most renowned for.

He's always been a bit like that and maybe his rivalry with Benn helped shape his English country gent act; being the opposite to Benn. He also brings a lot of attention to his son. I'm with you on enjoying the spectacle of him cornering his son, that gets more press in the UK than Hr's fights sometimes! There was one round where Senior did barely anything, just stood there. Hilarious stuff.
 
mozfonky said:
i skimmed through a book by one of the great travellers, it was fascinating, partly because they are kind of like my people, the outcasts of a nation and they have a different way of seeing life. the stories of seeing some faerie or something and magic were in there. I can't think of his name offhand but I looked at most of the big travellers trying to scope them out, i don't know, i don't think they could beat a top boxer like they may have thought but Mclean may have been an exception, he was pretty bad.
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Irish travellers certainly do have a rich tradition and culture. It's a pity for the majority it's synonymous with the drinking, violence and now, YouTube call out videos. There's a program in the UK (US too) about their extravagant weddings that can be interesting insight.

How do you mean about McLean dude? About the travellers beating him or do you believe McLean was a traveller? Apologies if you know, but he was an East End 'ardman, always good to his mum (UK cliché) and fought many travellers. There's a doc on Netflix about him at the moment that reveals he may have had OCD and other mental health problems, which could explain his violence.
 
I thought "King of the world" was great. A lot of interesting stuff about Patterson and Liston in particular, and of course early Ali(it ends around the second Liston fight). Both Liston and Patterson comes across as very sympathetic people with tragic stories.
 
Hagler said:
Eh, it's not that disturbing to think that big shot writers were more interested in great boxers than journeymen. Also, with his usual flamboyance Ali brought it on him. The fact of the matter is that Thompson and Mailer brought interesting angles (I haven't read the Plimpton piece, but the funny thing is that he's one of the characters in Mailer's The Fight) in the way they they talked about Ali. Mailer had such an ego himself that he couldn't stand riding his jock and didn't take some of Ali's horsecrap, in spite of admiring him. You feel it in the book. Thompson focused on how the late Ali was isolated by his entourage, and you feel in his piece how hard he worked to get to Ali, then to have him open up. Also, both knew their shit when then they talked about boxing itself.
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no doubt they are great writers, the life article by mailer on the first ali frazier fight captures what don dunphy called the greatest sporting event in history. the fight was ok, i thought mailer overdramatized some shit, not in the book but in the when we were kings video, well, in the book too, where he claims ali looks scared in the first round. He was honest about ali's training though, it sounds like, for whatever reason, after great performances against frazier and norton, he was lacadaisical for foreman as hard as that is to believe. Plimpton is another guy born with a silver spoon in his mouth, i even thought he was english he so elite. His writing is good though.
 
droolingliver said:
Part of the attraction of Mike's book was that it reads like he's saying it himself, from the heart, even if you disagree with his opinion at times. I felt some of it was a bit exaggerated; if you go by what he says he was barely training for some of his big fights. I definitely believe the part about how many women he slept with, it's a ridiculous amount.

Anything with Eubank in is instant gold! Yesterday before work I watched a bit of Eubank/Benn I. It's the first fight where the commentators were convinced he had a good chin and heart. Funny as now that's what he's most renowned for.

He's always been a bit like that and maybe his rivalry with Benn helped shape his English country gent act; being the opposite to Benn. He also brings a lot of attention to his son. I'm with you on enjoying the spectacle of him cornering his son, that gets more press in the UK than Hr's fights sometimes! There was one round where Senior did barely anything, just stood there. Hilarious stuff.
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i absolutely loved the cus d'amato/early tyson era when all the promise was there, it came off the page, I lived through that era and recall it like yesterday. Also, it was interesting how he mentioned Cus was a little koo koo and tells stories of his paranoia, where he comes in and cus thinks he's a killer and cus does an army crawl across the room, mike tyson just steps over him. I always wondered if he was aware of what the writers always said about cus, because you know, adoration blinds one, but he seemed to realize how nutty cus was and he didn't care.

eubank i've watched lots of hours of interview footage of him, i even had my brother who aint' in to boxing at all, watch some of his shows, he thought he was funny too. It's a shame that the watson tragedy happened, he could have been a better fighter without that. I'm glad his son is making good, last I heard several years ago, eubank was broke and his wife was divorcing him, citing his eccentricity (surprise).
 
swole420 said:
I thought "King of the world" was great. A lot of interesting stuff about Patterson and Liston in particular, and of course early Ali(it ends around the second Liston fight). Both Liston and Patterson comes across as very sympathetic people with tragic stories.
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the best part of king of the world was the part where ali opened up about his regrets and guilt over malcolm, it took him almost 40 years to admit that.
 
droolingliver said:
Irish travellers certainly do have a rich tradition and culture. It's a pity for the majority it's synonymous with the drinking, violence and now, YouTube call out videos. There's a program in the UK (US too) about their extravagant weddings that can be interesting insight.

How do you mean about McLean dude? About the travellers beating him or do you believe McLean was a traveller? Apologies if you know, but he was an East End 'ardman, always good to his mum (UK cliché) and fought many travellers. There's a doc on Netflix about him at the moment that reveals he may have had OCD and other mental health problems, which could explain his violence.
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oh yea, i guess i confused the unregulated fights of mclean with him being a traveller. I first heard about him from a former pro boxer here in seattle, he was from england and he showed me some, Lenny looked pretty good. my friend also told me how a criminal record barred men from fighting pro in england which is what limited lenny. My buddy, i think, may have had some issues over there too, at least that was my gut feeling. that's a stupid law, if america had that kind of a law, most of our great fighters would never have went legit with boxing.
 
I enjoyed it thoroughly:

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A different sort of boxing read.

On+Boxing.jpg
 
unforgivable blackness by geoffrey c. ward < about jack johnson
the fight by norman mailer
hands of stone by christian giudice

i am a fan of both tyson books as well, undisputed truth and iron ambition.
 
just out of curiosity, what stories did you like out of Iron Ambition? I haven't really had time to look at it, it looks like a new look at cus, i thought it was revelatory seeing the pics of a young boxing cus, thin as a rail, facially looking about as old as he ever would.
 
The Duran book is a great read. I'm going to go ahead and bookmark this thread for next time I'm on Amazon.
 
RizinSon88 said:
A different sort of boxing read.

On+Boxing.jpg
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I came here to post just this. It's a more, uh, philosophical read than I'd prescribe for the average Sherdogger, but possibly the best written book on boxing I've ever read.

I also think it's great because it's a great outsider's book; I grew up around boxing: I boxed, my Dad boxed, all my uncles (& that's a fuckin' lot) boxed, my old man's old man boxed... Seeing it from outside from someone who gets it was refreshing, I thought, & Oates is a great writer, I'd probably read a book on traffic cones if she wrote one.

Has anyone mentioned "The Sweet Science" yet? Arch, but Liebling fuckin' ruled. Another great stylist, & right about basically everything.
 
DaveDave said:
I came here to post just this. It's a more, uh, philosophical read than I'd prescribe for the average Sherdogger, but possibly the best written book on boxing I've ever read.

Has anyone mentioned "The Sweet Science" yet? Arch, but Liebling fuckin' ruled. Another great stylist, & right about basically everything.
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On boxing is both excellent writingwise and a bit over the top and confusing when it comes to technical knowledge.

IMO the perfect boxing book would have the background written by Oates, the interviews done by Thompson and the fights themselves described by Mailer.
 
swole420 said:
I thought "King of the world" was great. A lot of interesting stuff about Patterson and Liston in particular, and of course early Ali(it ends around the second Liston fight). Both Liston and Patterson comes across as very sympathetic people with tragic stories.
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Wonderful book.
 
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