best American bjj practitioners?

Huge difference. The question was who is the best American in BJJ. ADCC is a different sport. Same reason why we aren't including Olympic Wrestlers,Judo,or Sambo champions. Gordon's main attacks are illegal in BJJ. So how is he the greatest in BJJ?

I dunno. Adcc results (along with EBI and metamoris and GQ) are up on bjjheroes.com. UFC results are not.

Bjjheros results seem as good ofa criteria as any.
 
The difference is much smaller than the difference between Greco-roman and folkstyle wrestling. Yet no one would question your naming both Alexander Karelin and Jon Smith as al time great wrestlers.

Let me put it this way; if ADCC had marketed itself as a BJJ tournament from the beginning, but was otherwise the same, would you question it? I don't think many would.
 
Huge difference. The question was who is the best American in BJJ. ADCC is a different sport. Same reason why we aren't including Olympic Wrestlers,Judo,or Sambo champions. Gordon's main attacks are illegal in BJJ. So how is he the greatest in BJJ?

This has been debunked on here before but it keeps being repeated. His main attacks are strangles.

From BJJ heroes (who incidentally lists ADCC results) https://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/gordon-ryan

Gordon Ryan got 21 subs in 2017. Only 3 of those were leg locks of any kind. 3 heel hooks. He had more arm locks than leg locks. The only ones I even remember were Cyborg and Aly but I guess it says there was a third one at EBI.

2017 subs

Strangles: 14
Arm locks: 4
Leg locks: 3

How are his main attacks illegal when his main attacks are rear naked chokes and reverse triangles?

Also the days of ADCC being filled with Judo, Sambo, and freestyle or Greco wrestlers are long gone.

Isn't Mark Kerr the last guy to win ADCC with no significant BJJ training?
 
@JustTheTip again, even if ADCC is not a BJJ comp, Gordon is a BJJ guy that got 88kg gold and Absolute silver at ADCC in 2017 by beating Danis, Romulo, Xande, Keenan, Cyborg, Jones, Aly, and then losing on points to to Pena. ALL 8 of those guys are BJJ guys, no?

And again, do you honestly think he';s going to turn from a no-gi beast to a chump that can't beat anyone when he puts on a gi? His skill and dedication is going to vanish when he puts on the pajamas?

C'mon man. I dobuted Gordon harder than a lot of ppl. Especially after he lost to LO. I thought he might be a sub-only guy that was just an EBI stud. But he shut me the fuck up when he went out there and won ADCC in 2017 subbed savages like Romulo, Keenan, Cyborg, Jones, and Aly, and then subbed Yuri too at the end of the year. He talked mad shit but he backed it up. Gotta respect that.

The difference is much smaller than the difference between Greco-roman and folkstyle wrestling. Yet no one would question your naming both Alexander Karelin and Jon Smith as al time great wrestlers.

Let me put it this way; if ADCC had marketed itself as a BJJ tournament from the beginning, but was otherwise the same, would you question it? I don't think many would.

Yep. Legit question. Who is the last person to win an ADCC bracket that wasn't mainly a BJJ guy or gal? Mark Kerr?

I would bet my savings that no one from this point on ever wins an ADCC bracket without BJJ being their main focus. The MMA, Luta Livre, Catch, Judo, and Sambo guys usually make it like one or two rounds in tops and then end up losing to a BJJ guy. No hate. It's logical. The rules are closer to BJJ than any other grappling art. You can't win with ippon like in Judo or wrestling, or via pin like in wrestling,. There are 4 point throws but we rarely see them.
 
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Huge difference. The question was who is the best American in BJJ. ADCC is a different sport. Same reason why we aren't including Olympic Wrestlers,Judo,or Sambo champions. Gordon's main attacks are illegal in BJJ. So how is he the greatest in BJJ?

Heelhooks are not illegal in BJJ ... just illegal in *most* modern BJJ gi competitions.

That’s a big part of BJJ, sure, but it’s never been the only part and never will be.
 
Huge difference. The question was who is the best American in BJJ. ADCC is a different sport. Same reason why we aren't including Olympic Wrestlers,Judo,or Sambo champions. Gordon's main attacks are illegal in BJJ. So how is he the greatest in BJJ?

Given that OP said "gi and nogi" and proceeded to list Garry Tonon and Eddie Bravo, one can probably infer that he meant to include ADCC :)

(And yes, I wouldn't rank either as high as OP did, even including ADCC)
 
What about Kron? Like most Americans he wasn’t able to win gold at mundials, but was untouchable at brown and still very competitive at black. Won ADCC, has a win over Otavio at metamoris.
 
What about Kron? Like most Americans he wasn’t able to win gold at mundials, but was untouchable at brown and still very competitive at black. Won ADCC, has a win over Otavio at metamoris.
Ya know I never thought of him as American just because he’s a Gracie but you’re right. Not only did he win adcc but he’s one of a small group to win it by submitting everyone in his bracket.
 
Ya know I never thought of him as American just because he’s a Gracie but you’re right. Not only did he win adcc but he’s one of a small group to win it by submitting everyone in his bracket.
I forget about hlm as well. As far as I know most of his training was done in America either at his gym, and I thought I remember reading somewhere he trained a lot with Jean Jacques as well, but I could be wrong on that. I think we went undefeated at brown while competing a lot.
 
I got Mickey at number 1 and Keenan at number 2. Mikey went years undefeated and as a black belt won worlds. Keenan's run at brown was insane. As a bb he won pans a couple times and all the majors besides worlds. He is currently on fire too. I think Yuri will beat him but its going to be a war!
 
Americans and Brazilians definitely did not compete together as much back then, but I'm not entirely sure there was so much less parity. It just seems that way because we think of IBJJF Pans and Worlds as the top guys, and no Americans were there to even win.

But if you look at ADCC (which the Americans have always done), there is no parity gap between the current decade and the last. In the last decade the Americans had ADCC golds from Ricco Rodriguez, Mark Kerr, Jeff Monson, Dean Lister, and Robert Drysdale. In the current decade we've had Orlando Sanchez, Mackenzie Dern, JT Torres, and Gordon Ryan. It's not much different at all.

I think the Americans have always been at a high level but just weren't really competing with the Brazilians as much previously.

I’ve always believed that ADCC has been around long enough and is international enough to be used as a powerful benchmark for being “Accomplished.”
 
@JustTheTip again, even if ADCC is not a BJJ comp, Gordon is a BJJ guy that got 88kg gold and Absolute silver at ADCC in 2017 by beating Danis, Romulo, Xande, Keenan, Cyborg, Jones, Aly, and then losing on points to to Pena. ALL 8 of those guys are BJJ guys, no?

And again, do you honestly think he';s going to turn from a no-gi beast to a chump that can't beat anyone when he puts on a gi? His skill and dedication is going to vanish when he puts on the pajamas?

C'mon man. I dobuted Gordon harder than a lot of ppl. Especially after he lost to LO. I thought he might be a sub-only guy that was just an EBI stud. But he shut me the fuck up when he went out there and won ADCC in 2017 subbed savages like Romulo, Keenan, Cyborg, Jones, and Aly, and then subbed Yuri too at the end of the year. He talked mad shit but he backed it up. Gotta respect that.



Yep. Legit question. Who is the last person to win an ADCC bracket that wasn't mainly a BJJ guy or gal? Mark Kerr?

I would bet my savings that no one from this point on ever wins an ADCC bracket without BJJ being their main focus. The MMA, Luta Livre, Catch, Judo, and Sambo guys usually make it like one or two rounds in tops and then end up losing to a BJJ guy. No hate. It's logical. The rules are closer to BJJ than any other grappling art. You can't win with ippon like in Judo or wrestling, or via pin like in wrestling,. There are 4 point throws but we rarely see them.

I personally regard ADCC as no-gi BJJ. A super clean, powerful throw or having a guy beneath you with their full guard wrapped but unable to submit or reverse position after a significant amount of time should be a technical loss.
 
Renato Laranja (is really American)
Travis Lutter
Ronda Rousey
 
Not BJJ but I truly believe Josh Barnett and Brock Lesnar would maul almost all blackbelts, even in BJJ hahahaha

Tim Spriggs, Gordon Ryan, Rafael Lovato, Gianni Grippo, Keenan Cornelius, and Mikey Muscemi are the top American dogs imho.
 
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