Bellator 210 pulls 270k viewers

[Deleted member 510653]

Bellator is done

Sorry, Scott, you should have just let Bellator be Bellator. Every Friday night, tournament structure. No freakshow fights, no RANDOM tournaments in the deep divisions while the shallow ones go under the radar, and so fourth.

It should also be renamed, Bellator was Bjorn Rebney's baby, not Coker's.

 

[tithas]

I’m not talking about me. I tune in regardless. Although on DAZN now. I’m saying Showtime might be a better home than Paramount in general.



That’s assuming DAZN wants nothing to do with them once their current contract ends. People talk about it like it’s some bag of money they fell ass backwards in and DAZN was just giving charity for a few years and once it’s over Bellator will have to go back to the drawing board...or they can sign a new deal with DAZN.

It’s hard to measure what is success or not on DAZN so it’s going to be hard for the UFC shills who want Bellator under to make doom and gloom threads after every event. People generally agree they won’t last on Paramount probably beyond next year but not everybody agrees that that will be a bad thing in the end.

No I get it that is why I called DAZN a Band-Aid. Until spikeforce solves its ratings problems they have no long term viability unless they go 100% streaming and the DAZN deal will not at enough for that to happen right now.

 

[Darkart]

I for one have really enjoyed Bellator more since Coker took over, even the freakshow fights like Kimbo vs Dada and Shamrock vs Gracie did not fail on entertainment value. I'm anticipating Bader vs Fedor more than any UFC fight that is popping into my head right now, maybe Bones vs Gus II is that actually going to happen?

 

[Bobby Boulders]

I don't look too far into the TV ratings anymore. I've watched every event lately on DAZN, I'm sure many more have bee, as well.

Speaking if DAZN, been seeing plenty of commercials highlighting the new home if Canelo. I wouldn't doubt that their sub count is shooting up to a good number.

 

[Frank23]

Coker is not doing a good job.

 

[skylolow]

Any idea how many are watching through DAZN? There could be a lot of cable cutters watching it that way.

It's hard to say as they have only been in the US for a few months. Maybe after a year or so we might get some rumors of subscriber counts.

The way they are spending money though there going to need a lot of subscribers to maintain what they are building. They have to be in it for a good 150 to 200 million a year (won't shock me if it was even closing in on 250 million) with there current content and adding to it. Not too mention streaming content isn't free as the hardware and bandwidth it takes cost $$$$$$$$$. So that 10 buck they get out of you it won't surprise me if $2 of that goes directly to streaming cost. Under that scenario they'd need a good 20 million subscribers plus whatever they make off sponsors/ad cost to have chance to to break even. They do have the luxury of being available in other countries with to help support the whole system.

Call me skeptical but to get even 10 million to subscribe with the current content I think would be a major under taking. I'm not sure the fan base of the current content has enough fans willing to pay $10 bucks. I think to really break through in America they need to attract one of the bigger sports and lock them down as there only content provider in the US. But then again some of those sports may just want to cut the middle man out and forge ahead by themselves.

It will be very interesting to see where this all goes as the way we get are content is drastically changing and I do think a heavy sports oriented streaming service probably has a place in the future.

 

[RODNEY83]

Well I think you need some of those UFC guys. Look at the best fights they put on and many of them include ex UFC guys. To draw more viewers quickly they had two options. One, spend money on advertising the hell out of the product, this is very expensive to do. Two, sign fighters with name value hoping fans will follow those fighters to Bellator and grow the quality of the card. The problem is the UFC has shown through the years to be very keen on fighter's worth compared to draw. Almost everyone they let go/not resign has more or less done very little for the org they go too.

I personally don't think Bellator has ever had much of a dedicated fan base in love with what they did or do to take care of. That was proven when all they did was change the channel name(most providers it remained the same channel) and instantly the avg. ratings dropped 200K-250K.

Coker I also believe is a big part of the problem. The guy just doesn't have direction with his orgs ever. Most weight classes are a mess. He has always been very in the now oriented and seems to have limit vision for the future in each weight class.

Dazn was great for Bellator's bottom line but I don't think it will do anything to help them on Paramount. I predict the ratings will continue to be ho hum at best and the DAZN deal goes away in 3 years its very possible Bellator will be done.

Good points. I only disagree with you on signing ex-UFC talent as a means to draw viewers. It simply doesn't work and the crumbling ratings has proven factually it doesn't work. Although Bjorn Rebney was not a good guy from some many fighters talking bad about him, Bjorn Rebney built up Bellator by not going out and stupidly signing UFC talent, he went out and kept cost down and signed unknown talent for the most part and let them build themselves and let the viewers grow along with them. And when he made profits, he used it to sign Cheick Kongo and Rampage Jackson and King Mo. And resigned Michael Chandler and bought Michael Venom Page. He wasn't trying to go out and be all in on everything UFC ties. Plugging in ex-UFC fighters here and there is a benefit, but becoming inundated with signing ex-UFC fighters and feature them so much kills the Bellator product and it has killed a large portion of the Bellator fan base.

 

[RODNEY83]

I for one have really enjoyed Bellator more since Coker took over, even the freakshow fights like Kimbo vs Dada and Shamrock vs Gracie did not fail on entertainment value. I'm anticipating Bader vs Fedor more than any UFC fight that is popping into my head right now, maybe Bones vs Gus II is that actually going to happen?

The ratings have been speaking otherwise from your Bellator enthusiasm. There was nothing wrong with Coca-Cola, but new management comes aboard with their fresh ideas and gets rid of a tired and true seller, Coca-Cola, and introduces New Coke, and it was a colossal failure. New management gets fired and back came Coke Classic and now simply called Coca-Cola and sales went rights back up. Basically, when Bellator got rid of their tried and true Tournament formula altogether, it has been a colossal failure ratings wise. And what are they trying to do now? Feature long drawn out Tournaments, but still with the new management and it just isn't working.

 

[FrankieNYC]

@skylolow
Great post (above)

As a reference, WWE gets about $7 out of the $9.99 monthly

DAZN will be a money loser for a long time
They know that

Hopefully Bellator gets enough play within their system, bc without DAZN's guarantee, they are not in good shape

but in 2019 with the guarantee, it might make them profit finally

Strange how UFC/Bellator are shrinking in viewers but both will have record years in 2019

 

[Deleted member 510653]

Good points. I only disagree with you on signing ex-UFC talent as a means to draw viewers. It simply doesn't work and the crumbling ratings has proven factually it doesn't work. Although Bjorn Rebney was not a good guy from some many fighters talking bad about him, Bjorn Rebney built up Bellator by not going out and stupidly signing UFC talent, he went out and kept cost down and signed unknown talent for the most part and let them build themselves and let the viewers grow along with them. And when he made profits, he used it to sign Cheick Kongo and Rampage Jackson and King Mo. And resigned Michael Chandler and bought Michael Venom Page. He wasn't trying to go out and be all in on everything UFC ties. Plugging in ex-UFC fighters here and there is a benefit, but becoming inundated with signing ex-UFC fighters and feature them so much kills the Bellator product and it has killed a large portion of the Bellator fan base.

Totally agree here. 5 years ago, I made a point to watch Bellator, not now. I had guaranteed MMA every weekend, got to know the homegrown talent and became fans of some, and there were some good fights happening in those tournaments too. Michael Chandler carried the company through it's transitional times, and to be honest signing Cheick Kongo in hindsight the best signing Rebney made, considering Kongo's late career resurgence as of late. I remember when Mo cussed Bjorn out for saying he thought Rampage won their fight, and honestly Mo probably did but I have seen a lot worse decisions than that. But Bellator introduced me to the Pitbull bros and I was a big fan of them and still am to an extent and if anything Patricio should be fighting in the UFC but guys like him and Chandler seem content where they are. I'm looking forward to Fedor vs. Bader, Bader being another guy who has had a resurgence lately, and really I think he's better suited at hw. Other than that one, I'd say Paul Daley vs. Venom Page and those are the only two fights in Bellator I can remember or am interested in coming up.

 

[AimedWithV]

Strange how UFC/Bellator are shrinking in viewers but both will have record years in 2019

I have a feeling that UFC stop caring about viewership. They're satisfied with low ratings of their free TV shows.
TV slots are being filled, and apparently ESPN will be satisfied with this.

That's why they let Northcutt go.
That's why PVZ's husband surprisingly signed with Bellator instead of UFC, like all DWTNCS winner does. Apparently he wanted more for being related to PVZ but UFC didn't care.
Gone are the days of "Sage and Paige" priviledge. You have to be PPV star to get a special treatment.

 

[Gmork]

During his tenure as the head of Bellator, Scott Coker has created a perception that Bellator is a UFC dumping ground and a UFC retirement home because he and his staff has fallen in love with everything with UFC ties. He had a chance to add a Bellator fighter to the announce team to give the Bellator fans a feeling of authenticity, but he and his staff went straight everything UFC ties. Because of these UFC moves, his staff alienated the Bellator fan base because Bellator was no longer catering to them and those fans slowly left and Scott Coker and his staff never grew a new fan base. Rule of thumb with business, take care of your loyal fan base first while trying to grow from that. Don't dismiss your loyal fan base/customer base in the efforts of trying to grow a new fan base/customer base.

I think all of this is in the heads of you and a small handful of people. Coker has gone after all of the talent available to improve the Bellator product. In many instances that means signing top fighters (which would be stupid not to,) in other instances he's developing home grown talent.

I'm seeing a lot of really out-there opinions on this. Bellator, right now, is the best product it has ever been in terms of quality of sport. They have more top-level fighters now than ever before and their events are more relevant to the sport of MMA than they ever have been before. Coker is very clearly doing his job.

 

[RODNEY83]

I think all of this is in the heads of you and a small handful of people. Coker has gone after all of the talent available to improve the Bellator product. In many instances that means signing top fighters (which would be stupid not to,) in other instances he's developing home grown talent.

I'm seeing a lot of really out-there opinions on this. Bellator, right now, is the best product it has ever been in terms of quality of sport. They have more top-level fighters now than ever before and their events are more relevant to the sport of MMA than they ever have been before. Coker is very clearly doing his job.

The ratings say otherwise. Fans don't want to see UFC Lite or any cheap knock off of the UFC because they have the UFC. Bjorn Rebney, apparently not a good person according to certain fighters, in 6 years of creating Bellator by keeping cost down and making a profit on a limited budget, got fans attracted in Bellator because they were intrigued by seeing so called "fresh talent" like a Pat Curran and Patricio and Patricky Pitbull Freire and Michael Chandler and Darrion Caldwell and MVP and David The Caveman Rickels and seeing Eddie Alvarez in a American MMA company that was stable. Bjorn Rebney gave Alexander Shlemenko a chance to become a legitimate Champion in Bellator, let MMA fans become aware of Alexander Volkov and Vitaly Minakov. Had the great story of Blagoi Ivanov coming back from near death from a stabbing. Bjorn Rebney's Bellator allowed Douglas Lima a chance to grow and gave a young Andrey Koreshkov a American MMA outlet and had a dominate champion in Ben Askren. Coker's talent is who exactly? No one he has built going on 5 years now. He bought in Mousasi and Rory MacDonald. Mousasi arguably lost to Alexander Shlemenko and Rory MacDonald struggled mightily against Lima, but instead of facing Koreshkov next, Coker nixed that and Rory MacDonald still hasn't defended his title. Bader is in a heavyweight tournament that didn't include Bobby Lashley, a wrestler, Justin Wren, a wrestler, Augusto Sakai, now in the UFC, and Cheick Kongo, puzzling that he wasn't in it. The perception that Coker has more talent is because he has his talent avoiding fighters or puts together squash matches. The ratings are factual proof that Coker is doing a awful job. Another is the fact that Bellator on it's own merit hasn't turned a profit since Coker was named President of Bellator.

 

[skylolow]

@skylolow
Great post (above)

As a reference, WWE gets about $7 out of the $9.99 monthly

DAZN will be a money loser for a long time
They know that

Hopefully Bellator gets enough play within their system, bc without DAZN's guarantee, they are not in good shape

but in 2019 with the guarantee, it might make them profit finally

Strange how UFC/Bellator are shrinking in viewers but both will have record years in 2019

Definitively media providers are putting a major premium on live content it seems.

How DAZN and Viacom came up with 33 million a year is beyond me. It seems like they could've just bought Bellator outright for less than the 100 million over 3 years they signed it up for and probably still could've got Viacom to give/pay them some time slot on channel. Maybe DAZN is just drunk on the investor money coming in and need to spend it and want no business in owning an MMA org. But at least they have an assets to help there companies valuation.

It will be very interesting seeing how the UFC's numbers look after six months to a year on ESPN.

It's very apparent we are entering a shift in what ratings mean. At some point I hope these subscription based services will release/leak numbers of what there subscribers are watching. We know they have this data or how would the ever come up with a charge for any type of advertising, make decisions on what shows they keep or ax, where they invest more money on production of a show, renewing contracts with the creators of the media content, etc. etc. Though it will probably take years for people to come up with metrics on what it all means/draw conclusions from it.

 

[null]

The ratings say otherwise. Fans don't want to see UFC Lite or any cheap knock off of the UFC because they have the UFC. Bjorn Rebney, apparently not a good person according to certain fighters, in 6 years of creating Bellator by keeping cost down and making a profit on a limited budget, got fans attracted in Bellator because they were intrigued by seeing so called "fresh talent" like a Pat Curran and Patricio and Patricky Pitbull Freire and Michael Chandler and Darrion Caldwell and MVP and David The Caveman Rickels and seeing Eddie Alvarez in a American MMA company that was stable. Bjorn Rebney gave Alexander Shlemenko a chance to become a legitimate Champion in Bellator, let MMA fans become aware of Alexander Volkov and Vitaly Minakov. Had the great story of Blagoi Ivanov coming back from near death from a stabbing. Bjorn Rebney's Bellator allowed Douglas Lima a chance to grow and gave a young Andrey Koreshkov a American MMA outlet and had a dominate champion in Ben Askren. Coker's talent is who exactly? No one he has built going on 5 years now. He bought in Mousasi and Rory MacDonald. Mousasi arguably lost to Alexander Shlemenko and Rory MacDonald struggled mightily against Lima, but instead of facing Koreshkov next, Coker nixed that and Rory MacDonald still hasn't defended his title. Bader is in a heavyweight tournament that didn't include Bobby Lashley, a wrestler, Justin Wren, a wrestler, Augusto Sakai, now in the UFC, and Cheick Kongo, puzzling that he wasn't in it. The perception that Coker has more talent is because he has his talent avoiding fighters or puts together squash matches. The ratings are factual proof that Coker is doing a awful job. Another is the fact that Bellator on it's own merit hasn't turned a profit since Coker was named President of Bellator.

You're assuming that the ratings are down due to Coker's decisions rather than the switch from Spike to Paramount Network branding, or more importantly the rapid acceleration of cord cutting in the last few years where tv ratings are down in all kinds of ways. For all you know Coker's decisions are great and the ratings would be even worse if not for Coker's decisions. If I look at it purely from a fan perspective, the depth of Bellator's roster and entertainment value of their cards are better than ever. Doesn't matter to me if they are making money or not. If you want to fantasize that you are a tv executive or MMA promoter who can do better than Scott Coker, keep dreaming.

 

[RODNEY83]

You're assuming that the ratings are down due to Coker's decisions rather than the switch from Spike to Paramount Network branding, or more importantly the rapid acceleration of cord cutting in the last few years where tv ratings are down in all kinds of ways. For all you know Coker's decisions are great and the ratings would be even worse if not for Coker's decisions. If I look at it purely from a fan perspective, the depth of Bellator's roster and entertainment value of their cards are better than ever. Doesn't matter to me if they are making money or not. If you want to fantasize that you are a tv executive or MMA promoter who can do better than Scott Coker, keep dreaming.

Facts are facts. So your cheerleader attitude for your love of Scott Coker and the job you think is doing and making every excuse to ignore the facts isn't reflective of the truth. No profit made under his tenure going on 5 years, where the previous owner who used his home as collateral to get the loan to start Bellator kept cost down and made a profit. The ratings are factually, actually falling in real time in the real world. The roster isn't better because of your preconceived belief because you recognize the UFC names on it. Having UFC names on a roster doesn't make the roster better. This isn't fantasyland and in the real world the Scott Coker era of Bellator is tanking.

 

[Bubba32]

it may have been a much needed cash injection but I knew the dazn deal would hurt bellators ratings. Those who dont subscibe to dazn will just stop following bellator because they're missing out on cards and those who do subscribe will just watch

Definitively media providers are putting a major premium on live content it seems.

How DAZN and Viacom came up with 33 million a year is beyond me. It seems like they could've just bought Bellator outright for less than the 100 million over 3 years they signed it up for and probably still could've got Viacom to give/pay them some time slot on channel. Maybe DAZN is just drunk on the investor money coming in and need to spend it and want no business in owning an MMA org. But at least they have an assets to help there companies valuation.

It will be very interesting seeing how the UFC's numbers look after six months to a year on ESPN.

It's very apparent we are entering a shift in what ratings mean. At some point I hope these subscription based services will release/leak numbers of what there subscribers are watching. We know they have this data or how would the ever come up with a charge for any type of advertising, make decisions on what shows they keep or ax, where they invest more money on production of a show, renewing contracts with the creators of the media content, etc. etc. Though it will probably take years for people to come up with metrics on what it all means/draw conclusions from it.

I dont believe for a second they are getting 33 million a year.

 

[Gmork]

The ratings say otherwise.

So you'd rather see Dada 5,000 fighting the reanimated corpse of Ken Shamrock? Those fights got better ratings, it wasn't a better product. Or you'd rather see them forgo signing world-class talent, just so they can say all of their talent is "Bellator only" talent? That is a ridiculous, and frankly, childish point of view. If you're running an MMA organization you want it to be the best and most relevant organization it can be. If you want an org full of completely non-UFC fighters you can go to your local shitty small org and watch a bunch of dad bods throw haymakers at each other. Coker is trying to make Bellator a legitimate organization at the highest level, any thing less would not be doing his job.

 

[NoSmilez]

Bellator 211 is in italty. Of course it wasn't going to be popular for us. Anyone recognized more than 3 fighters on the card?

 

[FrankieNYC]

How DAZN and Viacom came up with 33 million a year is beyond me. It seems like they could've just bought Bellator outright for less than the 100 million over 3 years they signed it up for and probably still could've got Viacom to give/pay them some time slot on channel. Maybe DAZN is just drunk on the investor money coming in and need to spend it and want no business in owning an MMA org. But at least they have an assets to help there companies valuation.

interesting paragraph
i wonder how much Bellator would sell for/
I would think over $100m
Strikeforce sold for $40m+ & sports content is worth more now