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If everyone hated obese people then there wouldn't be successful obese people...and there are a ton of them.
Being obese is now a disease
- Thread starter hardheart
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I wish we would shame people that don't raise their kids the way people do with smokers.
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What the hell are people even arguing? That shame is a great way to stop people from being obese?! LOL. Right. Go work with the fucking population before interjecting your absolutely ridiculous and baseless opinion. If I talked to our diabetic/obese patients in a disrespectful tone and tried shaming them they would stop seeing me and never even consider taking my advice or participating in any of our studies. Medical professionals already often treat obese patients with disdain and shame, and I can guarantee you that the ones who lack empathy and understanding ARE THE WORST CLINICIANS.
The obvious answer is that patients need more education - weight loss (along with the often overlooked muscle gain that is also needed in this population) often requires a drastic cognitive changes, as well as overhauls in how they approach their overall lifestyle, family life, work life, and overall decision making process (on top of the proper information of the "how to" of diet and exercise). This isn't part of standard care for obesity AT ALL - you get a fucking pamphlet with next to no information, if you're lucky. It isn't until you have diabetes or heart disease that you actually get a thorough education, and at that point it's at best an uphill battle and at worst too late to make a difference.
Yes, the information on how to successfully lose weight is "out there" but it doesn't mean it's easily accessible, or easy to discern from the information that is 100% patented bullshit.
Also, funny that you mention that highly anecdotal Japanese article. The Japanese have the worst health at low-BMIs. They may not present with the high-BMI phenotype of North Americans, but their health deteriorates in a similar manner at relatively lower BMIs (look at the Korean/Japanese studies on Type 2 Diabetes and it's infliction on people with normal BMIs). You may not be obese in Japan, but skinny-fat and unhealthy is perfectly acceptable there.
The obvious answer is that patients need more education - weight loss (along with the often overlooked muscle gain that is also needed in this population) often requires a drastic cognitive changes, as well as overhauls in how they approach their overall lifestyle, family life, work life, and overall decision making process (on top of the proper information of the "how to" of diet and exercise). This isn't part of standard care for obesity AT ALL - you get a fucking pamphlet with next to no information, if you're lucky. It isn't until you have diabetes or heart disease that you actually get a thorough education, and at that point it's at best an uphill battle and at worst too late to make a difference.
Yes, the information on how to successfully lose weight is "out there" but it doesn't mean it's easily accessible, or easy to discern from the information that is 100% patented bullshit.
Also, funny that you mention that highly anecdotal Japanese article. The Japanese have the worst health at low-BMIs. They may not present with the high-BMI phenotype of North Americans, but their health deteriorates in a similar manner at relatively lower BMIs (look at the Korean/Japanese studies on Type 2 Diabetes and it's infliction on people with normal BMIs). You may not be obese in Japan, but skinny-fat and unhealthy is perfectly acceptable there.
immovablestone
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^ Word.
Just because the fat shaming/hate has me interested, as several people here either were overweight or work with those who are and are hoping to join the 'were' category, I was wondering if you could share your opinions on whether or not the following is common.
In my experience, the people who are the absolute hardest on the (currently) overweight are those who were previously overweight. I've helped several people lose weight, sometimes serious weight (up to 1/4 of their total weight), and a part of the process seems to be getting disgusted with how they are and wanting to make a real change.
After the change, things like throwing out all of their 'fat' clothes or getting rid of all of their 'fat' pictures seem to be very common events, and when talking about how they USED to be, these people who have lost the weight are very...well, I guess harsh on how they 'were'. More than that though, they are very harsh on those that are where they were. If anyone is going to make a snide comment or be outright insulting to someone who is overweight/living the 'fat and useless' lifestyle, it's almost always these people who were there and have made the change.
In my experience, the people who are the absolute hardest on the (currently) overweight are those who were previously overweight. I've helped several people lose weight, sometimes serious weight (up to 1/4 of their total weight), and a part of the process seems to be getting disgusted with how they are and wanting to make a real change.
After the change, things like throwing out all of their 'fat' clothes or getting rid of all of their 'fat' pictures seem to be very common events, and when talking about how they USED to be, these people who have lost the weight are very...well, I guess harsh on how they 'were'. More than that though, they are very harsh on those that are where they were. If anyone is going to make a snide comment or be outright insulting to someone who is overweight/living the 'fat and useless' lifestyle, it's almost always these people who were there and have made the change.
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Are you saying that people don't have a concept that eating more, and especially eating more of shittier foods (icecream and cookies err day), and engaging in little to no activity will result in them becoming fat?
And/or that people don't have a concept that becoming and staying obese will have negative health effects?
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No one's debating how not to get obese (as far as I know), it's how to treat the people that are already obese. They are two completely different things, so we need to be clear on what the discussion is on before going ahead.
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I have been obese for about 5 years. I never felt discriminated against to be honest. One time I was on a roller coaster and some guy gave me a dirty look because the ride attendant had to unbuckle me. That is literally the only time I ever felt I was looked down on for being fat.
Being fat, unlike smoking, has been around for a very long time, and has become something that's accepted. This is a bad factor, when it comes to convincing obese people that they really should lose weight.
It's a bad habit that's hard to change, but it all comes down to whether the fat person wants to change or not. If they aren't convinced that it really is unhealthy being the weight they are, they won't change.
It's a bad habit that's hard to change, but it all comes down to whether the fat person wants to change or not. If they aren't convinced that it really is unhealthy being the weight they are, they won't change.
Eh, maybe, but smoking cigarettes was around for at least a hundred years before campaigns started popping up to get rid of it, and large segments of our societies smoked in those times.
In contrast, real honest obesity, not just fat but obese, is probably a newer phenomenon in those same societies than smoking was, especially the number of people/percent of the population.
To put it another way, less than a hundred years ago, lots of people smoked, not very many were 100lbs+ over their healthy weight.
In contrast, real honest obesity, not just fat but obese, is probably a newer phenomenon in those same societies than smoking was, especially the number of people/percent of the population.
To put it another way, less than a hundred years ago, lots of people smoked, not very many were 100lbs+ over their healthy weight.
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Where is your data on this? The existence of massive support forums like the keto and loseit subreddits, operated by formerly obese people FOR obese people completely disprove your claims. What about overeaters anonymous? bulimics anonymous? or the fact that many weight loss experts were once obese? etc etc etc
I used to be 450+ lbs, i'm now 220 (and dropping) and have spent huge amounts of energy coaching dudes who used to be in my situation lose weight. I am furthest away from shaming them or feeling contempt for them, in fact I instantly see a lost opportunity due to ignorance and lack of knowing what is possible - and I have volunteered countless hours to helping them.
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Er...
I was asking 'whether or not the following is common.' I then went on to say that, 'In my experience' and listed a series of my personal experiences.
So, I was asking whether or not my minimal personal experiences were similiar to others, and whether those were common opinions. I am not sure what data you were looking for, as I wasn't making any claims for the population at large, and was in fact asking precisely FOR data or others experiences.
The second part of you post answeres mine very well though.
immovablestone
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My personal and anecdotal-observational experience: What you describe is actually the case a lot of the time, to one degree or another specially in poorer/less educated areas.
While growing up I was very obese. I had young, poorer parents who didn't know shit about anything, so yeah they thought nothing of cookies/treats/soda/boxed shitty food as the main parts of my diet, plus it made me happy to just sit around all the time so they thought nothing of it, combined with that they knew nothing of the long term consequences, both due to their own ignorance and the availability of good information. It took me until I was in my 20's to get a handle on it, and into my early 30's to really reverse things, due to all the downstream effects (mental, physical, and emotional).
There are now a couple entire generations of this in America.
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here here
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My mistake.
The journal links I provided on the previous page have a lot of useful data. Although some only have an abstract, if you google the paper name you can often find the full text. Most stigma over the obese is perpetuated by the media and those who are consumers of pop culture.
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I am honestly sorry for you. When you are a kid you're pretty much dependent on your parents' guidance. Once you become an adult you are responsible for your own self. Childhood deeply shapes who we are and we all carry the positive and negative traits from our upbringing with us, but once you are an adult it's up to you to keep/develop the positive traits and get over the negative ones. Good to hear you reversed that situation.
My question is this: do you really think your parents really didn't know that sitting around all day eating cookies/treats/soda/etc. will gradually make you fat? And as they saw you getting fat, do you really think they couldn't have known that all that shit must have been a factor there?
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Again, as I pointed out elsewhere - it's often all you CAN buy. And that's the best case scenario - the worst case is that it's all you can BUY (low price of junkfood due to subsidized corn industry) *and* you don't know any better. Look up food desert and food insecurity.
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People in this thread are debating it's not the fat person's fault he is fat, same as it is not the gay person's fault he is gay.
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Ok, you have $33 a week in food stamps. Go ahead and make a healthy grocery list and get back to me. Oh, and that's for being single, now feed you and 2 kids.
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