Before 2008 men were allowed to be Flirty with women, not anymore

There are some truthful elements to this, but come on. Situational awareness and a sense of decorum are not unreasonable expectations to have of a person. And it is not unreasonable to hold people to account when those things are breached. It's not like Harvey was out on a date with those people and made a move on them and got rejected.

If you want to go back to the days when a guy could just grab a girls tits and get away with it, we need to go all the way back to the days when that girls father or older brother could then beat the ever loving shit out of you and get away with it.
Sure I agree but again if you are Ben Affleck and literally dragging the girl into your lap and groping her that is not bad if she likes you and knows you are Ben Affleck. If he was a less appealing guy that could be a chargeable assault offense.

Guys certainly can't be dumb about it and they better be good at knowing what their image and how they are being received the more you push into areas that could be considered abuse. BUt my main point is that it is not so black and white that you can always just say 'X behaviour is always wrong and not desired' as that is only true until it is desired.
 
It is definitely true that 'making a move' is rapidly becoming a lost art. And males losing assertiveness is not healthy in many ways. But even when being assertive and making a move, there are rules and boundaries. And they are not that fucking complicated.

One of the most fundamental rules is that you set the stage for the interaction so that it is not likely to be misinterpreted. IE- You ask a girl out. Out for a date. Out for dinner. Out for coffee. If they say yes to that, while it does not necessarily mean you are going to get laid, it does at least mean that a girl has said yes to a setting where physical intimacy of some kind is a foreseeable outcome.

Now- sometimes physical intimacy manifests out of situations where you do not necessarily need to ask a girl out, but you do need to 'make a move'. Like at a club or bar or whatever. A good way to make a move and gauge interest is to suggest going to a private area. Again, if a woman says yes to that, then while you might not get laid, physical intimacy is at least a foreseeable outcome on her part.

Sometimes you are able to stage some physical antics in a public place, like a club, party or whatever. And in general the very old fashioned '1st base, second base, 3rd base, home' rule of etiquette makes sure that you do not grossly overstep. Though I have personally found that women are more likely to fuck you or suck you in private. When I see 2 people making out in public for ages, I conclude the guy does not know how to close. Once I am snogging and groping on a chick, I am immediately suggesting a more private setting.

The problems arise when these very simple, reasonable boundaries are not honored. Like grabbing an interviewers breast during an interview or asking a person to watch you fucking shower when you are supposed to be in a job interview. Notice how in both those cases physical intimacy is not reasonably foreseeable, and the 'bases rule' is completely ignored.
i agree.

it is a job's guy to make the move and flirt but it is also the guys job to watch for signals and get the hint if she is not interested.

I've seen many women put in rough spots where they have to get rude as the guy just is not taking the hint. That then triggers the guy to call her a bitch or something all because he was not able to read the signs. I think some guys want to push her to get rude so they can write off the rejection as her just being a bitch.

The first and easiest is engagement. As a guy if you are having to pull every word from her and she is otherwise not participating in the discussion, it is time to say thanks and move on. So when you say 'hi, how are you' if your reply is simply 'fine', that is not engaging. If she asks questions back and engages in conversation you can push in a little further and then start light flirting, etc.

But yes guys need to get a clue.
 
Sure I agree but again if you are Ben Affleck and literally dragging the girl into your lap and groping her that is not bad if she likes you and knows you are Ben Affleck. If he was a less appealing guy that could be a chargeable assault offense.

Guys certainly can't be dumb about it and they better be good at knowing what their image and how they are being received the more you push into areas that could be considered abuse. BUt my main point is that it is not so black and white that you can always just say 'X behaviour is always wrong and not desired' as that is only true until it is desired.

Do you really think she was enjoying that? Watch it again. There was an awful lot of awkwardness in there. And there was a lot of embarrassment on her part, as well as a few moments where she was literally trying to get away. I see an embarrassed young lady trying to make the best of a weird situation that should not have happened. And honestly, Ben seems fucking wasted. I bet he just reeked of booze right then.
 
Do you really think she was enjoying that? Watch it again. There was an awful lot of awkwardness in there. And there was a lot of embarrassment on her part, as well as a few moments where she was literally trying to get away. I see an embarrassed young lady trying to make the best of a weird situation that should not have happened. And honestly, Ben seems fucking wasted. I bet he just reeked of booze right then.

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You're just mad because if it weren't for surprise sex, you would have no sex at all.

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TV Host Defends Ben Affleck's Conduct in Wild 2004 Video Interview: It's 'Been Blown Out of Proportion'

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I am not saying Ben is on the level of Bill Cosby or Jared Fogle. And I won't be boycotting any Ben Affleck films over this. And there are also the cultural differences to consider with her being French. But no amount of retroactive spin is going to convince me that was appropriate behavior either.

Bottom line, if you would not sit by and watch someone behave a certain way toward your daughter or sister, you should probably not behave that way towards a woman yourself.

Ben probably should have just kept his mouth shut. He was out of line with that French chick and he was definitely out of line with Burton. If he has just kept his trap shut he would not be getting all this scrutiny

http://deadline.com/2017/10/ben-affleck-hilarie-burton-grope-apology-1202186309/

I gotta say though that sometimes the ladies don't help their cause much though. It's kind of hard to take Burton's outrage seriously when you see her glib analysis in that video.
 
Guys can still be flirty with chicks, just don't be ugly or taken and 99% of chicks wouldn't mind a little attention.
 
False.

George Carlin did a bit on the pussification of the American male in the special "You are all diseased" in 1999, well before Obama took office in 2005. He said "continued pussification" repeatedly, implying that it has been taking place before 1999.



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I think this chick came out and said it was all consensual and there was nothing to be outraged about.
 
I am not saying Ben is on the level of Bill Cosby or Jared Fogle. And I won't be boycotting any Ben Affleck films over this. And there are also the cultural differences to consider with her being French. But no amount of retroactive spin is going to convince me that was appropriate behavior either.

Bottom line, if you would not sit by and watch someone behave a certain way toward your daughter or sister, you should probably not behave that way towards a woman yourself.

Ben probably should have just kept his mouth shut. He was out of line with that French chick and he was definitely out of line with Burton. If he has just kept his trap shut he would not be getting all this scrutiny

http://deadline.com/2017/10/ben-affleck-hilarie-burton-grope-apology-1202186309/

I gotta say though that sometimes the ladies don't help their cause much though. It's kind of hard to take Burton's outrage seriously when you see her glib analysis in that video.
Well I am not going to be a Oobo on this topic nor for this young lady.

There are far too many people 'offended on behalf of' (Oobo's) others who are not offended themselves and that becomes a problem in and of itself.
 
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