beautiful Marcelo/high-elbow guillotine

[LS1Rx7]

Women tend to have much more flexibility in their shoulders, which is why this is an especially good technique for them.

I have started using a reverse grip, ie gable grip, with this choke, and find it gives you a lot more flexibility to get your shoulder high.

I remember in swim team too, women could swim butterfly easier than men because their shoulders are so much more flexible, it's easier for them to clear their arms. For men to swim butterfly, you have to really swim hard to get that clearance.

I dont think it requires special shoulder flexibility. I've done it before while rolling and my shoulders are not very flexible at all. You just really need to get a deep hold on their neck before connecting your hands and throwing that forarm up over the guys shoulder, you can see how high my team mate gets it and hes average in terms of flexibility.

 

[Zankou]

It may just be that my shoulders are not very flexible. I learned the gable grip variation from the Mendes bros seminar, and I love it, because it gives the additional bit of range I need to get the elbow high and tight. Obviously many people, like Marcelo himself, have no problem with getting the elbow high with the regular group. But I bet many guys do, particularly bigger guys.

 

[Frostbite**]

It may just be that my shoulders are not very flexible. I learned the gable grip variation from the Mendes bros seminar, and I love it, because it gives the additional bit of range I need to get the elbow high and tight. Obviously many people, like Marcelo himself, have no problem with getting the elbow high with the regular group. But I bet many guys do, particularly bigger guys.

whats up with the gable grip version?

my shoulders suck, i have long ass arms, and it is hard for me to get over their shoulder

 

[5050buttflopper**]

high elbow guillotine? dont u just mean guillotine, every other way is fundamentally wrong and allows more space

and it's not a technique marcelo came up with

why does the correct way to apply a guillotine have a special name ... it's a guillotine, everything else is some flawed version

xD

 

[5050buttflopper**]

I wish I could find a link where the difference has been explained. This is a Marcelo Garcia style guillotine. The McKenzie one is also called the Prayer guillotine, and the support hand palms the bottom of the choking fist, and pushes up the choking arm. The idea with the Marcelo/high-elbow is to block their shoulder so they cannot drive in with their shoulder to flatten you out. They are actually almost opposite. In a way, one is pulling and one is pushing.

Marcelo/high-elbow:

prayer choke/McKenzie:

nice try but he is still applying the choke in this pic, raising the elbows, specifically the right in this pic, will only help close the space around the neck ;D

so they r similiar like original poster said, just use different grips, which alter the way u apply the pressure but u r doing the same thing

 

[Bathwater]

nice try but he is still applying the choke in this pic, raising the elbows, specifically the right in this pic, will only help close the space around the neck ;D

so they r similiar like original poster said, just use different grips, which alter the way u apply the pressure but u r doing the same thing

Your post is confusing because it seems like you're more agreeing with him than not. Obviously, both are chokes. But, the mechanism for applying leverage differs, making them distinctly different, which is what he was pointing out.

 

[Vitamin C]

MGuillotine.

 

[Drew Foster]

high elbow guillotine? dont u just mean guillotine, every other way is fundamentally wrong and allows more space

and it's not a technique marcelo came up with

why does the correct way to apply a guillotine have a special name ... it's a guillotine, everything else is some flawed version

xD

I didn't say Marcelo "invented it" but it's attributed to him. He's finished it more than anyone by far and frankly, I don't think anyone else has used it in ADCC for example besides Leo Vieira and Jeff Glover. It's fair to say it's a trademark of his and people know what you're talking about. If everything else is flawed, most people are still using the flawed one then.

Your post is confusing because it seems like you're more agreeing with him than not. Obviously, both are chokes. But, the mechanism for applying leverage differs, making them distinctly different, which is what he was pointing out.

This. That's all I meant.

 

[MMAwisdom**]

LOVE the guillotine, it's been my go-to move for years.

Marcelotine and mckenzietine/prayer choke, I fucking love them.

 

[buhriyon]

It look like pointing the elbow up helps put your forearm and bicep in a better position for the choke so you don't have to get on your side as much. I like this variation a lot and I think I am going to try it out.

 

[Shemhazai]

whats up with the gable grip version?

my shoulders suck, i have long ass arms, and it is hard for me to get over their shoulder

I believe the Mendes grip Zankou is referring to is most easily described as a 'reverse' gable grip. I can't think of a single other technique that uses it, as it flares your elbows, which is usually bad, but for this move it's perfect. Basically, when doing the Marcelo guillotine, pronate your non-choking wrist (as if checking the time), allowing you to lift the elbow even further, then connect your hands palm to palm with the back of the (non-choking) hand facing you. The positioning of the choking hand doesn't change.

 

[Zankou]

Yeah I hit it last Saturday, I am using it all the time now. It is particularly strong on an opponent attempting to get to his knees from half guard or side control.

I also think you could get very fast at going into the grip off of pulling the back of your opponent's head into the guillotine, because you basically just keep pulling, then let your hand slide right down the face right into the grip, in one continuous circular motion. Should be very fast. Whereas with regular Marcelo style grip, you have to reverse directions and bring your hand back the other way. I thought up a drill to test this, I'll try it out this weekend or something.

 

[Shemhazai]

I also think you could get very fast at going into the grip off of pulling the back of your opponent's head into the guillotine, because you basically just keep pulling, then let your hand slide right down the face right into the grip, in one continuous circular motion. Should be very fast. Whereas with regular Marcelo style grip, you have to reverse directions and bring your hand back the other way. I thought up a drill to test this, I'll try it out this weekend or something.

Interesting observation. I don't really use the guillotine ATM, but this got me thinking: Could this grip perhaps make the guillotine easier to hit in the gi, since it allows you to slap the second hand directly on the outside of the first, where there is nothing in the way, rather than having to wedge it in-between the choking hand and the opponent's body, where the collar gets in the mix? :icon_idea

 

[Frostbite**]

^ and ^^ thanks guys

 

[Zankou]

Interesting observation. I don't really use the guillotine ATM, but this got me thinking: Could this grip perhaps make the guillotine easier to hit in the gi, since it allows you to slap the second hand directly on the outside of the first, where there is nothing in the way, rather than having to wedge it in-between the choking hand and the opponent's body, where the collar gets in the mix? :icon_idea

That is a really interesting point, I think that's likely the case, in which case the real issue is just getting the head in the 'basket' of the other arm ... then, because you are gripping your hand from the "outside," you don't have the problem of trying to dig your hand in over the top.

 

[Baianada]

lol, it almost looks like a fixed fight. Going for your first single with your neck exposed like that?

Nice technique though, I love it.

 

[Shemhazai]

That is a really interesting point, I think that's likely the case, in which case the real issue is just getting the head in the 'basket' of the other arm ... then, because you are gripping your hand from the "outside," you don't have the problem of trying to dig your hand in over the top.

I'm gonna try this out this week. Maybe I'll start using the guillotine more - I was always a bit turned off by its non-uniformity in application across formats.

 

[Dustin Turbeville]

I heard Marcelo say in a video demonstration that the high elbow drives the shoulder away so the opponents defense is completely gone. So by saying that then the finish or grip can be altered and still be effective. At 1:09 of his new highlight he applies the guillotine and just uses his hand to push back the shoulder much is the same principle as the high elbow and looks like he gets a fast tap. Judge for yourself though.

Marcelo Garcia "Step into my House" BJJ HL - YouTube

 

[Drew Foster]

I heard Marcelo say in a video demonstration that the high elbow drives the shoulder away so the opponents defense is completely gone. So by saying that then the finish or grip can be altered and still be effective. At 1:09 of his new highlight he applies the guillotine and just uses his hand to push back the shoulder much is the same principle as the high elbow and looks like he gets a fast tap. Judge for yourself though.

Marcelo Garcia "Step into my House" BJJ HL - YouTube

Yep. Same idea. He has a new grip that he uses sometimes too, it's like a Kimura grip almost. You can see it on a couple rolls with Ryan Hall, but you have to be on MGinaction.

MGInAction.com - Marcelo Garcia's Virtual Academy & Grappling Database - Videos beginning
MGInAction.com - Marcelo Garcia's Virtual Academy & Grappling Database - Videos 3:43
MGInAction.com - Marcelo Garcia's Virtual Academy & Grappling Database - Videos

 

[xMTDx]

I've always been known as the 'guillotine guy' at my gym and as a blue belt my coach told me I couldnt do them for at least a year to expand my game. I put to bed for a long longer than that and now I find myself doing them MArcelo style by accident when trying to really lock it up.

The marcelo style is the only way I do them now. They are so much tighter and quicker than the regular style.