Battles of posture + positioning:

thanks Sinister, I've have really bad rotar cuffs and now realise why, I'm very bad for extending my shoulder out of my socket on my left hook, and now its fucked.


Also Wineland vs Picket is a good example of the chest up chin down posture AFAIK

yeah I see what you are saying there. Do you feel like modern boxing defense puts strain on the shoulders?

Like I said earlier I experimented with a more slanted stance and I feel like it gives me extra protection so I do find it very interesting.

These above posts are related. Yes, shoulders down in the sockets. What should raise your shoulder naturally for protective purposes, is the tilt of your upper-body. Not actually lifting the joint out of place.

And yodave, covering up and taking punches on your arms while they're folded definitely puts a strain on the shoulders. This is why conditioning coaches are such a hot thing in combat sports now. When people learn poor form, they need more conditioning.

Perhaps I read KS overall point wrong, I misinterperted his last sentence. Still I don't see the posture being the factor in either of those fights.

Also to clarify to the two others, I'm not saying posture is not important and yes I think posture can make timing, distancing, and power more efficient and some people can gain power with different tweeks and technique. Still I don't see either mans posture in these fights as so far off that it was the issue, I think other factors were more of the cause.

Also Sinister, I agree a fundamental good posture saves you from damage to openings on the shots you didn't see coming or not expect (It's one reason I pretty much feel hands up is a must in any fighting style once your in punching range or up against a quick kicker, you can get away with lower hands at a distance). Interestingly enough the Karate guy in that fight seemed to have a more open guard than the guy who lost.

I don't know what else to tell you if you "don't see it" other than to look, because it's quite definitively there to be seen. But I think you're focusing on one word too much and ignoring the other. Posture + positioning, because what I was getting at is that one facilitates the other. Positioning decides almost every battle. Very rarely is combat left to chance. Sometimes the guy with better positioning loses (the first two Pacquia/Marquez fights are excellent examples) because he fails to exploit the better positioning he has, or fails to recognize it. However when you get a guy whose posture facilitates his positioning, and he's aware of it, as well as fit to fight, you have the winner of the contest.
 
Honestly brotha, this strategy is likely to have your head taken off. Stepping out of range, fading, pulling back are all ways of defending a high kick, sure. But against a good kicker that ain't gonna work very often and you'll end up with a shin across your jaw. A good high kicker can make adjustments mid-kick, to both the trajectory and range of the kick. A simple lean back, crunch over hips, delayed pivot, etc and a good kicker can easily make those minor adjustments mid kick. I assure you, any potential risk you think your forearm may endure is negligible, it's your head you need be concerned with. Additionally, you really shouldn't be taking the impact of a high kick on your forearms. You want to absorb the majority of the force with your shoulder, which is actually done by leaning into the kick and keeping your arms in tight/close to your body. If your trying to block high kicks by separating your arms from your body, you very well could end up with a broken arm and a good kicker will just kick right through those outstretched arms.

Not to get off topic in this thread, as it is really an excellent topic. That said, proper posture and positioning is how you defend a high kick. Just as sinister has shown, in the pics, chin down chest up arms in close to body...... this same principle applies to defending a high kick. If you roll your shoulders forward and sink your chest in, then you will be forced into absorbing those high kicks with just your arms vs. your shoulders and entire upper body.

Then before my options runs out, i'm gonna step inside and knock him out. Honestly any options that about evade to create counters opportunities or nullify the headkick altogether is better than blocking a bunch of force. It should always be the last resorts when you needs to be reactive or things are going south. Every options have its risks, no doubt about it. But i'd like to be proactive in my defense.
 
Then before my options runs out, i'm gonna step inside and knock him out. Honestly any options that about evade to create counters opportunities or nullify the headkick altogether is better than blocking a bunch of force. It should always be the last resorts when you needs to be reactive or things are going south. Every options have its risks, no doubt about it. But i'd like to be proactive in my defense.

I kinda agree with this, but my initial point was that you need to have your hands up ready to block as a last layer of defense... again you can be proactive with your hands up... those karate dudes were wearing shin pads if I remember correctly?? trust me, you dont wanna run the risk of eating a shin to the face because you wanna go all martinez/pernell whitaker on kickboxing...

your way, your relying only on positioning and "evading", which will most likely get you timed (same if you only blocked,you gotta mix it up)

its cool using the old school stance in boxing (thats what it was made for, boxing rules) and all, but you gotta make some adjustements if you plan on it working for other disciplines..

and dont be scared of blocking homie!!! really man, condition your arms and it wont be as much of a problem as your making it...
 
I was planning to create a separate thread for my question, but it seems aligned with this topic.

I was wondering how you guys think the stance and posture of fighters such as broner (the demarco fight), mayweather, toney and benton i.e. weight primarily on the back foot, lead hand slightly lower, and a bit more flat footed would do in the amateurs? Where nowadays I see the style of fighting is a lot more jumping on the toes, in and out, hands up high and punches in bunches. Could you have a successful amateur career with the 'old school' style in modern amateur boxing under the current rules?

Thanks
 
I kinda agree with this, but my initial point was that you need to have your hands up ready to block as a last layer of defense... again you can be proactive with your hands up... those karate dudes were wearing shin pads if I remember correctly?? trust me, you dont wanna run the risk of eating a shin to the face because you wanna go all martinez/pernell whitaker on kickboxing...

your way, your relying only on positioning and "evading", which will most likely get you timed (same if you only blocked,you gotta mix it up)

its cool using the old school stance in boxing (thats what it was made for, boxing rules) and all, but you gotta make some adjustements if you plan on it working for other disciplines..

and dont be scared of blocking homie!!! really man, condition your arms and it wont be as much of a problem as your making it...

I give up. And since when i said i fight with my hands down my fucking waist like Martinez anyway? Talking about insuniate something else rather than what it is.
 
Honestly brotha, this strategy is likely to have your head taken off. Stepping out of range, fading, pulling back are all ways of defending a high kick, sure. But against a good kicker that ain't gonna work very often and you'll end up with a shin across your jaw. A good high kicker can make adjustments mid-kick, to both the trajectory and range of the kick. A simple lean back, crunch over hips, delayed pivot, etc and a good kicker can easily make those minor adjustments mid kick. I assure you, any potential risk you think your forearm may endure is negligible, it's your head you need be concerned with. Additionally, you really shouldn't be taking the impact of a high kick on your forearms. You want to absorb the majority of the force with your shoulder, which is actually done by leaning into the kick and keeping your arms in tight/close to your body. If your trying to block high kicks by separating your arms from your body, you very well could end up with a broken arm and a good kicker will just kick right through those outstretched arms.

Not to get off topic in this thread, as it is really an excellent topic. That said, proper posture and positioning is how you defend a high kick. Just as sinister has shown, in the pics, chin down chest up arms in close to body...... this same principle applies to defending a high kick. If you roll your shoulders forward and sink your chest in, then you will be forced into absorbing those high kicks with just your arms vs. your shoulders and entire upper body.

Just to reiterate what Sullivan is saying most people won't be throwing arm breaking head kicks, how many fighters break their arms blocking a head kick on tv, none that I can remember but I sure remember a lot of head kick knockouts.

Blocking is a huge part of any combat sport and old school boxers block just as much as anybody else. If you don't block no matter how talented and experienced of a fighter you are you will get rocked sooner or later.

The truth is no matter how hard you try not to get in the head you will be rocked, but its for sure you will get rocked if you're not ready to block. Old school boxing facilitates blocking, it doesn't mean you no longer have to block, if you want to that style of fighting that's not old school, mike maccullum blocks punches all the time in his fights, he doesn't go for the knockout or something else because he disdains blocking. I'm sure sinister is the same way, in fact I asked him these questions so I know what he thinks about this.
 
I give up. And since when i said i fight with my hands down my fucking waist like Martinez anyway? Talking about insuniate something else rather than what it is.

I know you have them like old school boxers, thats still too low to block high kicks... you'll understand when you start sparring, right now your only on the drawing board...:icon_lol:
 
I give up. And since when i said i fight with my hands down my fucking waist like Martinez anyway? Talking about insuniate something else rather than what it is.

and this is exactly why people get angry with you.
 
And yet another thread devolves into an argument about NLM's hand positioning and stance.
 
and this is exactly why people get angry with you.
^^^ NLM, I think this is a riot.... and says nothing substantive.... :icon_conf

Except thread filler.... :D
Blocking is a huge part of any combat sport and old school boxers block just as much as anybody else. If you don't block no matter how talented and experienced of a fighter you are you will get rocked sooner or later.
^^^ There's lots more to this quote.... OH, but what copy of my principles after the typical, 'discrediting' rants against my competent black-belt karate....

KarateStylist
 
Last edited:
I was planning to create a separate thread for my question, but it seems aligned with this topic.

I was wondering how you guys think the stance and posture of fighters such as broner (the demarco fight), mayweather, toney and benton i.e. weight primarily on the back foot, lead hand slightly lower, and a bit more flat footed would do in the amateurs? Where nowadays I see the style of fighting is a lot more jumping on the toes, in and out, hands up high and punches in bunches. Could you have a successful amateur career with the 'old school' style in modern amateur boxing under the current rules?

Thanks

Good fight imo.

 
I was planning to create a separate thread for my question, but it seems aligned with this topic.

I was wondering how you guys think the stance and posture of fighters such as broner (the demarco fight), mayweather, toney and benton i.e. weight primarily on the back foot, lead hand slightly lower, and a bit more flat footed would do in the amateurs? Where nowadays I see the style of fighting is a lot more jumping on the toes, in and out, hands up high and punches in bunches. Could you have a successful amateur career with the 'old school' style in modern amateur boxing under the current rules?

Thanks

Old school would work great under any rule set. What happens is you assume a bladed stance (this means that your back foot is further behind your lead foot then a modern stance and it creates that acute angle of the body) and show them your lead shoulder. This puts your head out of alignment with their centreline.

Then if they try punching you throught your lead side your raise that shoulder and block off that side of your head. If they try to throw a punch throught your outside shoulder, they have to take the long way around because of your bladed stance and you have that backhand up and tight around your chin, so its right there to block that strike.

If they try to attack your lead body, trying to take advantage of the fact that you are in effect showing them the front of your body, you have that lead hand down low so you can block that. This is why they block their head with their back hand (you will see that back hand navigating between one side of their head to the other) and attack with their front hand, this way they can up from underneath while you try punching them in the head.

Their read body side is blocked by the fact that again its far away from their opponent and their arm can dip low and block that.

So as you can see, no matter what rule set they can block and slip any strike. But because all of this isn't taught in your modern gym, I had to learn this all myself basically, but its a 100% fundamentally sound style and isn't affected by the amateur soft rules.

Maywheater just got beat by a guy who also had great fundamentals but this isn't because of any specific rule set.

what this stance does is basically akin to that a turtle, as soon as you feel threatened you just turtle up in this shell and become very difficult to hit you. and all old school fighters use this style.

and this fight show what I mean, two old school boxing greats ducking it out, mike macculum and james toney. I watched the whole fight and they basically have the same style, its just james toney was faster and seemingly the more talented fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNSHdYxsqV0

the difference I noticed between mike and james is mike was more offensive with this stance while james was more defensive, more prone to counterattacking when mike was attacking more, including more of a penchant for body punching.

ps: I reread my post and I wrote lead hand at one point when I actually meant back hand, mistake corrected.
 
Last edited:
I'm only 20, what do you expect?
Then again i might have my hope too high for the internet.
 
Can someone explain the difference between posture and positioning? Seems like the same thing but I must be missing something. Thank you
 
I know you have them like old school boxers, thats still too low to block high kicks... you'll understand when you start sparring, right now your only on the drawing board...:icon_lol:

Shoulder/chin level is not too low to block high kicks. And you drop your hands lower than that.
 
Thanks for the replies sinister and yodave.

In the Toney/Mccallum fight, the commentator mentions at the 7:00 min mark that Toney has a specific way of dipping his shoulder to avoid the left hook unless you step to the left. Could you guys elaborate on that? Is it simply him dipping his head or bending down under the punch?
 
Thanks for the replies sinister and yodave.

In the Toney/Mccallum fight, the commentator mentions at the 7:00 min mark that Toney has a specific way of dipping his shoulder to avoid the left hook unless you step to the left. Could you guys elaborate on that? Is it simply him dipping his head or bending down under the punch?

Here's one fight that showed how well old school principals holding up vs modern school of boxing in an amateur context. Note the guy in Red and his posture/stance/positioning/fighting style vs the other guy in Blue. He is a student of Sinister's partner in Iceland.

 
Must be more noticeable in boxing. A few years back when Karo Parisyan was on the UFC scene, id pick the winner based on bad posture. As it was mostly based on technique rather than stamina/strength back then it was a good betting mechanic!
 
Back
Top