Batman v Superman VS Justice League

Time to get Zack Snydered!


  • Total voters
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As it goes right now, I give JL a slight edge.
BvS was disappointing, but I didn't think it was as bad people said. It was just that the few bad parts were REALLY bad and hard to separate from the rest of the movie.
I don't mind 'dark' if it's a good movie. Logan was dark, and Logan was excellent.

I give JL the edge mostly because it felt a bit more like a complete movie. BvS felt like there was just too many questions left unanswered.
I got the extended version of BvS, I'm looking forward to watching that later this week. I hope it helps to change my opinion
 
JL is like a sandwich without meat; it has zero depth, no tension whatsoever, horrible CGI in Steppenwolf + Mustache-gate. Its rushed, the head of WB made the studio release it to make a bonus quota while the production crew wanted to delay it. Its forgettable, and plays it safe to the point of being vacuous. The jokes are largely misses and the choreography dull and unimaginative. BvS contrarily, wastes Doomsday, shoehorns JL cameos (including WW, imo) and has a oddly convenient way to end the title conflict. But at least it has ambition and cohesive narrative and tone. It has a tone of gravity and depth and people trash because its not the humorous, somewhat light Avengers. Maybe, Superman could've been a bit more likable (Synder wanted to make Man of Steel 2, but WB didn't think it would be as commercially successful as a Batman/Superman team-up) nevertheless, everyone has an idea of who Superman is and doesn't require much in that regard. I own the BVS Ultimate Edition on Blu-ray, its a visual masterpiece (the Superman in Mexico scene is wonderful) and is one of the most ambitious takes in the genre. The Batman warehouse fight is the best Batman fight scene to date as someone previously mentioned. BvS is 8/10...JL is 6/10. The cast is amazing, but offers way too little, save a fun 3rd act and a cool world-building scene on Steppenwolf's backstory.
 
The Ultimate Edition of Batman v Superman IS the movie. It was the movie until like a few weeks before it was going to release according to those fanboy scoopers like Umberto and others. WB got cold feel unfortunately and demanded that they shave 30 minutes of the movie, making it an incomprehensible mess(or more so). The version released in theaters MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. There’s vital information in the UE that you’re simply not given because it was cut for time. It is absolutely insane what they did.

Beyond that, the Ulimate Edition improves the pace
of the movie so much. In the theatrical cut after the exciting prologue with the Superman/Zod battle from Bruce’s perspective, the movie just instantly falls off a cliff and becomes r e a l l y.... s l o w, and really disjointed. Most of what was cut was from the first hour, and you can tell. It’s like after that exciting action in the prologue all of a sudden you’re walking through molasses. In the Ultimate Edition the first hour breezes by.

The theatrical cut is a movie where the first 2 hours are an extremely slow slog, then the 3rd hour all of a sudden moves at break neck speed. The Ultimate Edition has a very good first hour with about 30 minutes of action to start the movie, a slow second hour that drags, then picks up again in the 3rd hour climax.

Due to the improved pacing the movie plays much better and feels like a shorter movie than the one released in theaters even though it’s longer. My brother never saw the theatrical cut but he went with me to see the UE on its limited release in theaters. He didn’t like the movie and we spent the whole car ride back dissecting what they should have changed, but he did mention that it did not feel like a 3 hr movie and was surprised it was.

Is the UE a masterpiece? Of course not. All the problems a lot of people have are still there(writing, Lexenberg, Murder Batman, Martha, etc.) What it greatly improves on is the structure of the movie though which for me was one of the biggest issues.
 
And while I enjoyed JL the first time I saw it with a fanboy crowd, after subsequent viewings I really don’t like it. There’s just nothing there. Some parts are kinda cool on a first viewing. But as soon as you leave the theater the memory of the movie and anything that happened just disappears like cotton candy in your mouth. There’s no substance whatsoever. It is manufactured to be as inoffensive as possible. I won’t be buying this movie when it releases for home release and I never thought that would be the case beforehand.
 
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Now we've gotten Justice League, another DC film that's MOSTLY a Zack Snyder creation

Nope.

Reshoots were vast. “This is still Zack Snyder’s movie.” All of that is PR. There’s a reason the budget was 300 million+. Zack Snyder was fired after principle photography and then Whedon was brought on. It’s been reported that instead of pushing back the release date to accommodate the reshoots, they just decided to cut their losses and keep the original date. That’s why the CGI for one is so bad. Also I think Variety(or another major trade) reported that Kevin Tsujihara was afraid of pushing it into 2018 because it would risk him not getting a bonus from it since he wasn’t sure how much longer he will be at WB.
 
Nope.

Reshoots were vast. “This is still Zack Snyder’s movie.” All of that is PR. There’s a reason the budget was 300 million+. Zack Snyder was fired after principle photography and then Whedon was brought on. It’s been reported that instead of pushing back the release date to accommodate the reshoots, they just decided to cut their losses and keep the original date. That’s why the CGI for one is so bad. Also I think Variety(or another major trade) reported that Kevin Tsujihara was afraid of pushing it into 2018 because it would risk him not getting a bonus from it since he wasn’t sure how much longer he will be at WB.

So you're saying that reshoots were so extensive that it ended up being MORE a Joss Whedon film than a Zack Snyder film?

You'll have to really show me some evidence for that claim.
 
So you're saying that reshoots were so extensive that it ended up being MORE a Joss Whedon film than a Zack Snyder film?

You'll have to really show me some evidence for that claim.

The evidence is in the bad CGI

All whedon superman shots have the lip

And I think most superman scenes in the movie had that lip

More than 50% of superman scenes at least
 
So you're saying that reshoots were so extensive that it ended up being MORE a Joss Whedon film than a Zack Snyder film?

You'll have to really show me some evidence for that claim.

Reshoots were major. And there’s a definitive list of what was reshoots and what is not floating around. But I’m not just talking about what was physically shot by Whedon vs Snyder. A LOT of what made it into the movie is Whedon don’t get me wrong, but also the fact that Whedon had final cut and shaped the movie to be his movie and not what ZS intended. Some shots were shot by Snyder but repurposed for something else. Stuff like that. ZS’s composer got fired and Whedon brought in his own etc.
 
Reshoots were major. And there’s a definitive list of what was reshoots and what is not floating around. But I’m not just talking about what was physically shot by Whedon vs Snyder. A LOT of what made it into the movie is Whedon don’t get me wrong, but also the fact that Whedon had final cut and shaped the movie to be his movie and not what ZS intended. Some shots were shot by Snyder but repurposed for something else. Stuff like that. ZS’s composer got fired and Whedon brought in his own etc.

I feel like you know your shit

I have heard similar things and it sounds like you have researched even deeper into it than I have
 
The evidence is in the bad CGI

All whedon superman shots have the lip

And I think most superman scenes in the movie had that lip

More than 50% of superman scenes at least

More than 50%. Almost all scenes of Superman/Clark Kent are reshoots. His whole role got completely thrown out and rewritten. They kept what they could use like the Superman vs Justice League scene and the scene at the end where Bruce tells Clark he bought the bank. In fact those are the only 2 scenes off the top of my head that aren’t reshoots.
 
The evidence is in the bad CGI

All whedon superman shots have the lip

And I think most superman scenes in the movie had that lip

More than 50% of superman scenes at least

Reshoots were major. And there’s a definitive list of what was reshoots and what is not floating around. But I’m not just talking about what was physically shot by Whedon vs Snyder. A LOT of what made it into the movie is Whedon don’t get me wrong, but also the fact that Whedon had final cut and shaped the movie to be his movie and not what ZS intended. Some shots were shot by Snyder but repurposed for something else. Stuff like that. ZS’s composer got fired and Whedon brought in his own etc.

Do we know if Snyder actually produced a cut of the film? If so, it would certainly be interesting to compare.
 
Do we know if Snyder actually produced a cut of the film? If so, it would certainly be interesting to compare.

I have read so many conflicting reports on the entire thing

So I really have no idea how much how a movie synder finished before leaving
 
Probably just 1 cut if his orignal movie exists. But it would be just from what he did in principle photography only. So it would be an extremely rough cut with unfinished effects, no score, etc.

This girl who keeps in regular contact with Snyder on Vero and has a personal friendship with him is one of the main driving forces behind that #ReleasetheSnyderCut bullshit. She created a website about it. It makes me think she knows something if she’s going through all this effort. Snyder’s son also likes and retweets stuff that has that hashtag which could be nothing, or it could mean there’s something to it.
 
Both are deeply flawed movies. I picked BvS purely on the basis of Afleck's performance. As an older, battle-scared Dark Knight with a death wish, he was damn near perfect. And the warehouse fight was simply the best representation of how Batman can fight yet seen in a live action movie.

Let's face it: Superman and Wonder Woman are two of the most iconic characters in fiction. They are also fucking boring. Their level of power and their personalities make them difficult to relate to. Batman is different; cynical, obsessive, driven by anger and grief. Yes, he's a Billionaire, which is almost as difficult for most of us to comprehend as a superhuman alien or demi-goddess. But the Dark Knight speaks to that part of us which rages against the injustices of life. The part of us H L Menchin was referring to when he said,

"There comes a time when every good man is tempted to spit on his hands, hoist the Black Flag, and begin slitting throats".

The very fact that Batman is willing to fight Superman is a perfect example of why he is so popular. The Dark Knight will not back down, even in the face of God Himself. Yes, it was cheesy as fuck, but I couldn't help grinning when Batman growled, "Do you bleed...you will!". For all his flaws - I can't read a Batman vs Joker story anymore because I'm sick of Batman finding excuses not to snap the Joker's neck - it's the Dark Knight's willingness to rage against the Heavens that make him one of my favourite characters.

Batman had a far more central role in BvS, by definition. In JL, he was pretty much a supporting character. This was realistic, because even Prep Time can only take you so far when you're facing God-like enemies. But because WW and Supes had to do so much of the heavy lifting, the movie itself felt less dramatic and involving. Especially since Superman's power allowed him to bitch-slap Nickleback so easily.
 
fuck fucking Whedon for destroying a serious superheroes saga.

Yes, MoS and BvsS had their problems, but it had many philosophical stuff that nobody cared to elaborate before. The way Snyder show how the real world would see a Superman is just awesome. The moral implications, the opinion of politicians and common people about a semigod living between us. I think is very interesting, besides the fight scenes in MoS are awesome. They are not the DisneyMarvel bullshit of having civil wars with zero civil casualties.

Many :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:s criticize all the destruction in these two movies and want it to be a funny marvel movie with a joke every 30 seconds and three stooges scenes every minute; but is not like a evil, powerful alien race with zero respect for human being lifes is going to tell the earth heroes: "dude, this city is full of innocent people, let's go to fight to a place with no people like a empty airport or let's go to fucking Siberia for the sake of it"

X-Men also had very good movies, X2 is awesome, the Magneto story on first class was amazing, days of the future past was a really enjoyable apocalyptic approach; Apocalypse had lots of Jennifer Lawrence bullshit but as a whole I loved that movie (I think I'm the only person in the world who says that). And now that the fucking mouse bought it, everything is gone, prepare for another humorous superheroes movie with thousands of jokes all around. Serious superheroes movies are dead.
 
Ah the old turd sandwich or giant douche paradox.
 
@shadow_priest_x @TheRuthlessOne

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This is Ben Affleck’s Batman stunt double. He’s the badass that did the warehouse scene in BvS.
 
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