Barbershop Workers Leave After California Supreme Court Ruling

[SleepyBoy]

It doesn't make much sense to me to being with.

Uber's drivers already provide a service that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity's business.

Uber merely connects customers to drivers, they don't actually offer driving as a service and don't even have their own vehicles. Their business is a line of communication and payment between drivers and customers, not the driving itself.

This.
I think of Uber as a software company.

 

[JamesRussler]

I thought that the mere fact that they could work whenever they want, wherever they want, and how much they want was enough to establish there was no employee/employer relationship.

You raise an interesting point that the business is reliant on the Contractors. I could also see an argument that Uber is renting their platform to the drivers like a barbershop rents a chair.

Looking at @Trotsky's post I find the idea of a legislating a 3rd designation as "Dependent Contractor" or something like that.

I guess this "gig economy" is kind of it's own thing and I'd rather not stifle that if possible.

I’m not so concerned with whatever label we use, as long as the system is fair. The problem I see is big businesses exploiting little working people with clever contractual arrangements. And to that end, I’m not sold on the “gig economy.” Sounds like a term Silicon Valley made up to mask the fact that most college graduates can’t find steady employment. Most of these giggers aren’t entrepreneurs, just people with no job and who are desperate for cash. They wait tables for a few hours, drive Uber for a few more, then masturbate on a webcam at night. All this to gross $40K a year with no benefits. With no steady income, giggers aren’t in a position to buy houses or start families. In fact, many giggers live with their parents. Ultimately, they’ll end up needing government assistance. Society and culture will degenerate until they finally fall apart.

I digress. Companies that abuse “independent contractors” to weasel their way out of offering steady employment are cancers on society.

 

[cooks1]

I don't know how it will shake out. But it is impossible to overstate the impact this could have.

It honestly is a tough one. Because employers have been using the IC model to marginalize employees for decades. This law certainly remedies that. But the unintended consequences and collateral damage are going to be enormous. Just enormous.

Doing something this big so quickly is how recessions are started. Is this not being phased in? Is there no time limit to comply?

And in a lot of cases I am thinking the one that suffers is going to be the state. Already I am thinking of ways around it. A current IC could simply start their own LLC. That costs almost nothing. They can then offer their services to other businesses doing the same thing without the IC distinction. So they are essentially the same barber cutting the same hair, only now as a company they have access to thousands of dollars of deductions and expenses that they previously did not. Congratulations, they just doubled their EITC cash. The state may have to spend billions more in costs to collect billions less in taxes.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I’m not so concerned with whatever label we use, as long as the system is fair. The problem I see is big businesses exploiting little working people with clever contractual arrangements. And to that end, I’m not sold on the “gig economy.” Sounds like a term Silicon Valley made up to mask the fact that most college graduates can’t find steady employment. Most of these giggers aren’t entrepreneurs, just people with no job and who are desperate for cash. They wait tables for a few hours, drive Uber for a few more, then masturbate on a webcam at night. All this to gross $40K a year with no benefits. With no steady income, giggers aren’t in a position to buy houses or start families. In fact, many giggers live with their parents. Ultimately, they’ll end up needing government assistance. Society and culture will degenerate until they finally fall apart.

I digress. Companies that abuse “independent contractors” to weasel their way out of offering steady employment are cancers on society.

I think you have a point when it comes to IT and some other fields but these jobs didn't really exist before a least not in these numbers in the US.

If we look at Grubhub, Postmates, Ubereats etc.... It's almost a brand new economy. Delivery guys weren't getting benefits or making great money before (at least not in PA). They've created a whole new industry.

Uber and Lyft are driving down taxi wages but I'd bet outside of New York and maybe Chicago it has increased the demand for drivers and the amount spent from ride halers a ton.

I live in Philly (5th largest city in the US) and outside of Center City it's tough to just hail a cab. You have to call one and wait 30 minutes for them to arrive. and they fucking sucked.

Uber has made the Philly cabs step their game up (they all take cards now and cab companies are developing apps to compete with Uber).

In the suburbs and more rural areas (at least out side of Philly) there were barley any cabs to begin with and many of the cab companies shut down at 10-11PM.

So I can understand some places clamping down on them for hurting employment (NYC) but at least where I'm from I think it has been a nice uptick in economy with a limited knock against cabs which sucked and we were beholden too via over regulation (expensive medallions with shitty owners).

And we also have to realize that the gig economy can also serve other demographics outside of people striving to own a home a start a family.

I know plenty of college kids that prefer these kinds of gigs as opposed to traditional part time jobs with more set schedules.

There are also people that have a full time job with Benefits but need extra cash for a myriad of reasons.

My brother in law was laid off 6 months ago and was able to Uber it for 3 months before finding a new job.

 

[JamesRussler]

I think you have a point when it comes to IT and some other fields but these jobs didn't really exist before a least not in these numbers in the US.

If we look at Grubhub, Postmates, Ubereats etc.... It's almost a brand new economy. Delivery guys weren't getting benefits or making great money before (at least not in PA). They've created a whole new industry.

Uber and Lyft are driving down taxi wages but I'd bet outside of New York and maybe Chicago it has increased the demand for drivers and the amount spent from ride halers a ton.

I live in Philly (5th largest city in the US) and outside of Center City it's tough to just hail a cab. You have to call one and wait 30 minutes for them to arrive. and they fucking sucked.

Uber has made the Philly cabs step their game up (they all take cards now and cab companies are developing apps to compete with Uber).

In the suburbs and more rural areas (at least out side of Philly) there were barley any cabs to begin with and many of the cab companies shut down at 10-11PM.

So I can understand some places clamping down on them for hurting employment (NYC) but at least where I'm from I think it has been a nice uptick in economy with a limited knock against cabs which sucked and we were beholden too via over regulation (expensive medallions with shitty owners).

And we also have to realize that the gig economy can also serve other demographics outside of people striving to own a home a start a family.

I know plenty of college kids that prefer these kinds of gigs as opposed to traditional part time jobs with more set schedules.

There are also people that have a full time job with Benefits but need extra cash for a myriad of reasons.

My brother in law was laid off 6 months ago and was able to Uber it for 3 months before finding a new job.

I was of course being cynical and grossly overgeneralizing. Big tech has done many great things for freelancers and entrepreneurs. It's just that when I hear terms like "gig economy," it sounds like a euphemism for something more sinister. I know that some globe-minded economist probably came up with that term to cover up the corrosive effects of economic liberalism.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

They're cracking down on this in Canada too. I work part time for Skip the Dishes and they sent us this huge new contract that if you read it carefully like I did, gave us way more freedom.

Now if I get sent a job I don't like the look of (low tip, hard to understand delivery instructions, annoying to access restaurant) I just say 'reassign that please' and they have to reassign it and send me a new job.

It's made the job way better and turned the dispatchers into our bitches.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

without looking at the details this sounds like employers trying to fight against offering employees full benefits that go along with employment.

its for reasons like this that the EU>>> USA

 

[MadSquabbles500]

They can, but the the owner can not dictate how the barber does their job in any way. Smaller places can do it this way but many nicer shops of set prices and procedures with respect to how services, straight rasor shave for instance, ar done. An owner can not dictate to an IC how that would be done. Imagine if the workers at Starbucks were IC’s and could make cofffe any way they wanted.

I see, but with this new ruling, it may be the only option. What is worse a barber can do if IC especially if you are high end shop? Barbers are really selling themselves anyways. The shop owner has the location and probably has his own clientele too. If you have extra seats, sublet them out. Plus there is only so many correct ways people can cut hair properly. Same with every other styling service offered.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I love both Larry Nances.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Technology and manufacturing companies that use automation need to be reined in.

Uber merely connects customers to drivers, they don't actually offer driving as a service and don't even have their own vehicles. Their business is a line of communication and payment between drivers and customers, not the driving itself.

Uber is a livery car service whos UI is that of an application. They even offer car leases to their "independent contractors".

 

[funcrusher2007]

without looking at the details this sounds like employers trying to fight against offering employees full benefits that go along with employment.

its for reasons like this that the EU>>> USA

Yeah, I use to be an independent contractor (residential carpenter) and it was a fancy way of saying..

“Build our shit but we will be damned if we have to follow labor laws/taxes/benefits/etc.”

I can’t think of an industry that has exploited. “ independent contractors “
More then construction.

I’m sure it’s not all bad but if you have a business, have people who work there,make a profit from said business. Then they are your employees and you should be subject to that states labor laws/rules.
By using the independent contractor ruse , business has been able to sidestep otherwise mandatory business obligations (benefits/labor laws/minimum wage/etc)

Maybe the barber shop should operate like every other business/employer?
I don’t know, not a barber but this ruling , though very broad and in need of refinement,is a step in the right direction.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Barbers are going to have to start making house calls. Like massage therapists.

Maybe now I can end my cut with a handy.

Unless they can get the whole block or apartment complex on an exclusive contract, driving around, to cut hair for that price is not going to be feasible at the going rate.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Unless they can get the whole block or apartment complex on an exclusive contract, driving around, to cut hair for that price is not going to be feasible at the going rate.

I was joking.

 

[lifelessheap]

It doesn't make much sense to me to being with.

Uber's drivers already provide a service that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity's business.

Uber merely connects customers to drivers, they don't actually offer driving as a service and don't even have their own vehicles. Their business is a line of communication and payment between drivers and customers, not the driving itself.

Exactly. They are an app supplier. Uber employees are computer nerds not drivers. Fundamentally they are a software company.

 

[LMP]

If there were not a bunch of companies out there using IC to fuck over employees, this wouldn't be an issue. These companies classifying people as IC to get out of paying fair wages and avoid paying benefits is totally fucked up. There was a problem that needed addressed. If things are fucked up, it because companies will do anything to save money, especially fuck over the employee.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Exactly. They are an app supplier. Uber employees are computer nerds not drivers. Fundamentally they are a software company.

Craigslist is an 'app supplier'.

Uber has 12k employees with 2 million drivers globally. How can anyone say theyre an 'app supplier'......lol

 

[lifelessheap]

Craigslist is an 'app supplier'.

Uber has 12k employees with 2 million drivers globally. How can anyone say theyre an 'app supplier'......lol

Craigslist is a software company. Should the people selling on there be employees?

Uber has 12K employees treated as employees and 2 million app users who happen to drive for them. The drivers use an app to drive for a contracted price. They are not employees. They are nothing like a traditional employee. lmao

 

[KaNesDeath]

They are not employees. They are nothing like a traditional employee. lmao

Theyre a newly generated branch of a existing market bypassing anti-corruption laws. That are also using tax loopholes to gain a competitive advantage.