Assistance With Programming Texas Method

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by ASEGSEA, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. ASEGSEA Guest

    ASEGSEA
    Now that Starting Strength has reached it's end, and my pursuit of 1,000lb's in the Big 3 are still in-tact until the end of February, I'm taking DrBdan's advice and moving onto Texas Method with the expectation of reaching that goal. After reading through quite a few articles throughout the webs about TM and other workouts, TM looks to be the most promising for my current goals.

    I found a nice and pretty spreadsheet from Stronglifts .

    My questions are:

    1.) Since rows and Powercleans were interchangeable in SS, can I replace rows with powercleans in TM? I'd like to continue developing my cleans.

    2.) If I do switch it out, will my deadlifts go up weekly if I only do it on "test" day? If not, what if I replace the 1RM with a 5RM?

    3.) What are other exercises I can throw in other than dips and pull-ups? Or is that more than adequate?

    Here's a screenshot of the workout:
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. DrBdan Something clever

    DrBdan
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    Rows and Power Cleans aren't actually interchangeable though people do treat them as such. If you want to do power cleans I'd do them on Monday after squats and bench/OHP. Or if you are just working on technique and they are fairly light you could do them instead on Wednesday as part of the recovery day.

    When I did the TM I only deadlifted on Friday and my deadlift still went up. There will be some carryover from squats and power cleans (if you add them). Some versions of the TM also have GHRs and/or back extensions on Wed which would have carry over. You can also deadlift on Monday instead of doing rows (or do deadlifts then rows) and then either deadlift on Friday or do power cleans (or power snatches).

    In regards to dips it's just supposed to be pressing assistance so you can change that.

    I feel like this was a bit of rambling, hope it helps.
     
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  3. SlaveToTheDark HAIL TO THE KING BABY

    SlaveToTheDark
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    i would keep the rows since they are a great assistance exercise to just about anything, but mostly the bench
     
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  4. ASEGSEA Guest

    ASEGSEA
    Powercleans are relatively low and moreso about technique and development. When you say "After squat and bench" do you mean outing Rows all together?

    You're saying you deadlift went up weekly even only one it once a week, but that would mean the rows helped, amirite?
     
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  5. Artigo Blue Belt

    Artigo
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    Hey, I'm also looking at starting TM next weeks, could I get some feedback as well?

    1) Is that that vanilla TM?

    2) In TM, do you just work up your DL on heavy singles? What % of your DL from SS do you do your worksets at?
     
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  6. squatsquatsquat Orange Belt

    squatsquatsquat
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    There are a number of ways to do the Texas Method and I would recommend giving this article a read if you haven't already. It's worth considering. Also, 70s Big recently ran this article discussing tweaking the Texas Method (unfortunately it's the first part of many articles that have not yet been run, so I'd just keep my eye on that site for when the next article does come).

    TM is quite a man maker of a program but it is also a lot of fun. I wish you the best of luck with it!
     
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  7. toonie Tuesday

    toonie
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    Fuck. I had a good write up but I went back a page by accident. Time to type it again.

    I had that same spreadsheet from the SL5x5 site. I know Glenn said it was a good layout of how he designed the TM. I made some minor tweaks (i.e I wanted to incorporate cleans among other things). Check out my log on the second post to see my exact programming.

    Glenn suggested adding cleans to Wednesday, so I would eliminate the 3x3 rows and replace it with 5x3 cleans.

    There are plenty exercises there so you shouldn't really need to add anything. Weighted dips/chins are great additions. GHR would be fine too if you wanted.

    If you do add chins, I'd keep them on a separate day from rows. I found my chins suffered when trying to do them after rows.

    You'll do fine with deadlifting once a week. I made great gains with it by alternating between a heavy single/double/triple. You could do a 5rm instead though if you want.

    Be prepared to eat and sleep a lot. The volume day is going to kill you. My workouts on those days were upwards of 2 hours. You really need your rests when doing 5x5.

    To the guy above me, I didn't use a percentage of SS or anything. I just roughly started out with what weights I think I could manage and added weight as I saw fit for the first week. Weekly progression is key. Try to improve your lifts when comparing it to the same day the week before. Also, check out the SS wiki. There's a small write up about the TM there.

    Good luck.
     
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  8. ASEGSEA Guest

    ASEGSEA
    Fantastic advice gentlemen. I'll keep it pretty vanilla, but Toonie I'll take the tip and switch Wenesdays for Clean days. I'll toss in some ab work to keep things sexy.

    Looking forward to this "man maker" of a workout. So just to clarify, my PRs will keep going, correct? Max strength is the goal for now.
     
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  9. JauntyAngle International man of mystery

    JauntyAngle
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    That is probably the most important consideration.
     
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  10. Poseylifts Orange Belt

    Poseylifts
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    When I did TM I replaced rows on Wednesday with 5x3 Power Cleans. I also did weighted dips on Monday and chinups on Wednesday (And Friday but this isn't necessary).

    The biggest advice I can give is not to overload your Wednesdays. Recovery days are for just that. If you start to get really heavy on front squats or presses and start failing reps then you aren't doing it right. I didn't realize this until I was almost done. I'd recommend doing 2x5 Back Squat at 80% of Monday's weight unless you really want to do Front Squats. If you do Front Squats, do them without a belt and don't go super heavy IMO.

    I usually started deadlifts at 135 for a few reps, then a double at 225, and then singles from there. If you've never attempted a 1RM you can work up to one rep at your previous highest weight, then keep going up in 20 pound increments or so until you hit your 1RM. From there, I used calculators and such to figure out 2RM and 3RM assuming my 1RM had gone up 5 pounds from the previous week (So using a projected 1RM of sorts). You can do 5RM for deadlift I've seen that in some templates but I prefer to keep deadlift reps low and the weight high.

    I wouldn't really add in any extra assistance. The volume and intensity days are the secret to this program, and you don't need a whole lot of extra assistance to make progress.

    I'd also recommend getting as much rest as possible, dynamic stretching pre workout and static stretching afterwards, and to eat a shit ton especially on Sunday and Thursday night. This program is grueling and if you can keep it up for 8+ weeks you should see some nice gains.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  11. DrBdan Something clever

    DrBdan
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    One more thing, when I did TM I did rows when I benched and chins when I OHP'ed.

    DeathBySpikes made a good point about front squats. I started doing them at 80% of Monday's squat weight but that quickly made the front squats really tough so I will probably do back squats on Wednesday next time I do the TM.
     
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  12. Barbarian Yellow Belt

    Barbarian
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    In the back of Practical Programming when giving examples of TM Rippetoe advices to do the following:

    Week 1
    Monday: 5x5 Squat/5x5 SOHP/1x5 Deadlift
    Wed: 3x3 FS or 3x3 Squat @80% Monday/3x5 Bench@90% of 5x5/Rows 3x5
    Friday: 1,2,3 PR Squat/1,2,3 PR SOHP/6x3 Power Clean

    Week 2
    Monday: 5x5 Squat/5x5 Bench/1x5 Deadlift
    Wed: 3x3 FS or 3x3 Squat @80% Monday/3x5 SOHP/Rows 3x5
    Friday: 1,2,3 PR Squat/1,2,3 PR SOHP/6x3 Power Clean

    For assistance he says keep it simple, you can do what you like but weighted pullups 3x fail, back extensions 3x15 and maybe a bit of hypertrophy work if you really feel like it. Basically overload on Monday, recover on Wednesday and achieve on Friday.

    Also the biggest thing to remember is that the entire program is customizable, nothing is set in stone. Like lets say you start to plateau on bench really quick, you could do a few things...change Monday to 8x3 and keep going up each week, or you could change your Friday bench to DE Bench 8x3 @50-60% or you could even just switch your bench completely to a 5x5 C.Grip Bench or Incline and start increasing that every week. This program requires you to do a lot of thinking about how to maintain progress at all times, you should never really "plateau" in anything. I highly reccomend reading Practical Programming if you haven't.
     
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  13. Artigo Blue Belt

    Artigo
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    Do you recommend DL on your Monday or Friday workout? Because I have seen it in both places now. Monday for a set of 5 or Friday for heavy singles.
     
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  14. ASEGSEA Guest

    ASEGSEA
    Here's the program. Let me know what you think. And thanks for taking the time, you guys who typed all that info out.

    Week 1

    Monday: Stress

    1. Squat | 5x5
    2. Overhead Press | 5x5
    3. Powercleans | 6x3
    4. Weighted Dips | 3x5
    5. Weighted Pull-ups | 3x5
    Wednesday: Rest
    1. Front Squat | 3x3
    2. Bench Press | 3x3
    3. Rows | 3x3

    Friday: Test
    1. Squat | 1x1
    2. Overhead Press | 1x1
    3. Deadlift | 1x1
    4. Sexy Ab Time


    Week 2

    Monday: Stress

    1. Squat | 5x5
    2. Bench Press| 5x5
    3. Powercleans | 6x3
    4. Weighted Dips | 3x5
    5. Weighted Pull-ups | 3x5

    Wednesday: Rest
    1. Front Squat | 3x3
    2. Overhead Press | 3x3
    3. Rows | 3x3

    Friday: Test
    1. Squat | 1x2
    2. Bench Press | 1x1
    3. Deadlift | 1x2
    4. Sexy Ab Time
     
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  15. PowerHungry Oh yeah!

    PowerHungry
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    Did Glenn take a sabbatical?
     
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  16. Tosa Red Belt

    Tosa
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    Don't think of Friday as a test day. It's not about doing as much as you possibly can, it's about doing more than you did last time. Also, while you may be able to just do heavy singles on Friday initially, eventually doing double or triples as well will extend how long you can run TM before stalling.
     
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  17. ASEGSEA Guest

    ASEGSEA
    So I'm not setting PR's or hitting maxes every Friday?

    Also, how do the Powercleans, Rows, and Deadlifts look all setup?
     
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  18. toonie Tuesday

    toonie
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    I think you have too much work on your stress day. I'd recommend keeping chins on the days you do press, and do dips on the day you bench. Otherwise I think you'll be pretty burnt out.
    i.e week 1, day 1 - 5x5 ohp and 3-5x5chins.. week 1, day 2 - 3x3 bench, 3x3 dips

    Also, Doing 6 sets of 3 cleans after squatting heavy and pressing/benching heavy is going to be tough. I think that's why Glenn suggests doing cleans on your second day. Gives you a better opportunity to ensure good form. Preferably, I'd do 3-5x5 rows on Monday and do 5x3 cleans on Wednesday.

    Further, like Tosa stated, don't think about Friday as a test day. It doesn't always have to be a PR 1RM.

    I find a better way to think about TM is like this; Each Monday, try to improve all your lifts contrasted to the previous Monday. Similarly, improve your Wed compared to previous Wed (but ensure you're not too stressed). On your Friday's you want to beat what you did last time, but you don't necessarily have to be in PR territory all the time. Do a heavy single this week. Maybe take that same weight, or 5-10lb lighter and do a double. Triple the next week. Then, on the fourth week, beat your previous single. Rinse and repeat.
     
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  19. DrBdan Something clever

    DrBdan
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    You are hitting PRs but that doesn't necessarily mean going all out on Friday. It just means lifting a weight you haven't lifted before. e.g. You do 315x1 one week, the next time you just have to do at least 316x1. Maybe you feel like you can do 325x1 but it's better to do a bit less so you can keep the progress going as long as possible.

    Are you going to rotate through 1, 2 and 3RM on Fridays?

    The PCs, rows and deads look fine to me.
     
    #19
  20. Tosa Red Belt

    Tosa
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    True maxes are all out efforts that you don't/can't make every week because they're too draining. It's why Powerlifters deload after a competition, even though the volume done is nothing compared to most workouts.

    Start by doing working up to a single that's around 90%, maybe even a bit lighter. With any routine, it's better to start on the light side, rather than too heavy. The important thing is that the weight you work up to for a heavy single increases, not that you hit a true max. As Wendler says, "you're training for something greater than today".

    When you're at the point you feel you can't, or it's too draining to increase the weight you do for a heavy single each week, then start working up to heavy doubles or triples some of the time instead.

    The rest looks good.
     
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