Ashihara Karate and the Sabaki Technique

Ok. Thanks for the added details. But I am really curious what a boxer has to say about that. ( @Sinister ) I am not experienced enough in the sweet science but it seems to me that the same concept applies to boxing strikes. Am I wrong? Is there a big difference?

No, you're not wrong. And no, there isn't a big difference. The only real difference is that some hardcore Traditional Karateka may insist on a) your stance set with both feet firmly planted in place prior to launching your attack and b) keeping the feet flat on the ground as you put your hip into your punch. By comparison I think most boxers frown on the flat footed approach but I could be wrong about that. Like you I am not that experienced in the Sweet Science neither. That's Sinister's domain.
 
Yeah but apparently he is too busy talking about wing chun...Sigh...

But thanks anyway for your time.
 
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No, you're not wrong. And no, there isn't a big difference. The only real difference is that some hardcore Traditional Karateka may insist on a) your stance set with both feet firmly planted in place prior to launching your attack and b) keeping the feet flat on the ground as you put your hip into your punch. By comparison I think most boxers frown on the flat footed approach but I could be wrong about that. Like you I am not that experienced in the Sweet Science neither. That's Sinister's domain.
I love Shotokan but still find it odd how it's so hell bent on the "flat feet". I don't think any other Karate style forces that so much, it's really my pet peeve. Kyokushin and offshoots raise the heel and turn the foot, right?
 
I love Shotokan but still find it odd how it's so hell bent on the "flat feet".

I not only find it odd I find it to be quite annoying. And what annoys me about it the most is that the majority of the "flat feet" advocates only do so out of tradition and based on the "This is how it was taught to me" mindset. Most of them do not even insist on it based upon any research that they have done.

I don't think any other Karate style forces that so much, it's really my pet peeve. Kyokushin and offshoots raise the heel and turn the foot, right?

I'm sure that would depend on the dojo and the instructor. Unfortunately there are Kyokushin instructors who also teach the flat foot approach including my Shihan :(

The only time that he doesn't say anything about the heel being raised is during kumite when you will "naturally" raise the heel of the rear leg. What I find to be really amazing is that the jury has been in a long time ago about the heel being raised and the foot turning is more efficient for channeling power into your strikes and is less of a strain on your knees and tendons than the flat feet approach.

I gotta tell you, this thing called tradition can be a real headache sometimes.
 
I not only find it odd I find it to be quite annoying. And what annoys me about it the most is that the majority of the "flat feet" advocates only do so out of tradition and based on the "This is how it was taught to me" mindset. Most of them do not even insist on it based upon any research that they have done.

I'm sure that would depend on the dojo and the instructor. Unfortunately there are Kyokushin instructors who also teach the flat foot approach including my Shihan :(

The only time that he doesn't say anything about the heel being raised is during kumite when you will "naturally" raise the heel of the rear leg. What I find to be really amazing is that the jury has been in a long time ago about the heel being raised and the foot turning is more efficient for channeling power into your strikes and is less of a strain on your knees and tendons than the flat feet approach.

I gotta tell you, this thing called tradition can be a real headache sometimes.
Was curious what Iain Abernethy had to say on this and found his post:
https://iainabernethy.co.uk/content/back-heel-ground-kihonkata-why#comment-601
TL/DR: Use both. Heel flat for stability, heel up for range and power.

And in case you ever wondered if either method caused more injury:
https://www.aofas.org/PRC/meeting/Documents/differencesininjuryriskbe.pdf
TL/DR: No significant difference.
 
Was curious what Iain Abernethy had to say on this and found his post:
https://iainabernethy.co.uk/content/back-heel-ground-kihonkata-why#comment-601
TL/DR: Use both. Heel flat for stability, heel up for range and power.

I agree with this. Flat feet is better for stability but not for torquing or adding power to your strikes.

And in case you ever wondered if either method caused more injury:
https://www.aofas.org/PRC/meeting/Documents/differencesininjuryriskbe.pdf
TL/DR: No significant difference.

Nice find. Not to say that this study is flawed but it is based on overall martial arts practice (stances, punches, kicks, sparring). I will have to search for it again but there was a study some time ago about the differences in power delivery and long term injury to knees in boxing, kickboxing and traditional martial arts but this study focused strictly on the long term effects of constantly delivering torquing strikes while flat footed. It didn't go into anything else as far as kicking, sparring, kata, etc.

Another thing; the aofas.org study concluded that there isn't any significant differences in injury rate but there are differences nonetheless. But I wonder if the differences would have been more significant had they strictly looked at injuries to the knees and tendons based on flat footed torque punching alone and over a longer period. It's an accumulative long term effect which is even more disconcerting to me because most will not realize the potential harm that is being done. I think traditional Karateka are even more susceptible if they have a teacher who has them doing loads of kihon for years with the flat footed torque motion approach. I'm sure I sound prejudiced. Maybe I am. It's possible. But I just don't like it. Maybe I'm just turned off by those who only do so just because that's how they learned it and they never ventured to explore other delivery methods. I don't know.

I used to train in muay Thai and I know that there is definitely a difference in the feeling of the outside calf and knees when punching heel up and when punching flat footed; specifically punching flat footed with speed and power while adding the torque and swivel motion of the hips and upper body.
 
Bumping this great thread to highlight the best ashihara stylist in the world right now: Vasyl Lomachenko.




 
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