A's Catcher Bruce Maxwell Testing Limits Kneels For National Anthem

[Jorge Luis Borges]

He is patriotic. He is using the 1st amendment in the way it was meant to be used. Peaceful protest. The flag does not just belong to members of the military, it belongs to all of us. These players would be demonized if they protested violently and they are demonized when they protest peacefully.

The exercise of one's rights is not inherently patriotic. Patriotism is a love or respect for one's country. Kaepernick has made it explicitly clear in many interviews that he does not respect the United States This is why he kneels during its anthem, because he refuses to show respect for it.

There's no doubt in my mind that Kaepernick is well within his rights to disrespect America, but intentionally disrespecting America as an American is not patriotic. It's the opposite of patriotism.

 

[HereticBD]

Every single news source is talking about it, pretty much everyone in America is talking about it. I would say they are accomplishing a lot.

What are they talking about though? Police brutality(which was the original message), or some football players kneeling during the anthem, and whether or not it's disrespectful?

The entire point of the protest has been lost, because of how irresponsible the method of protest was.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Being a patriot is not blinding following behind a flag.
Why the hell do people keep going back to complaining about the "disrespect" shown to a piece of freaking cloth and not the spirit in which this country should be about?
A patriot doesn't roll over and let their country go to shit. They challenge their country to do better

I didn't say anything about following anyone or about blind loyalty. I have no problem with people criticizing the US. I suspect everyone here has done so at some point. The key difference is that while being critical, patriotic critics maintain a firm respect and devotion to their country. That is after all what patriotism means.

But you are making a huge assumption that Kaepernick loves the US. I've never heard him say anything that would make me think that. His comments all over ESPN make it clear he holds the US in contempt. He's free to do so, but it's not patriotic.

 

[rokzilla]

Do you think there is some magical, easy solution to the problems of racism and the legal system in this country?
You, and others are expecting this clear plan to be executed. There isn't one. There is no calculated process.
The first step is to have the conversation. When the president and a lot of others, including the ones who actually have the power to change shit are saying "there is no problem ", then it's going to be hard to move on to "now what"
There are no simple answers here. Especially when there's a lot of people that don't give a shit, and don't care to actually listen to, or solve any problems.

Could you point to one person saying there isn't a problem in the United States? I keep hearing this over and over and I don't really see anyone saying this.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Such actions are not like a kid asking for ice cream for breakfast.

Of course theya re quite dissimilar in many key ways. But you were asking about the principle of testing limits. In that sense, they are very much the same.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Blast the retard with knees to the head while he is down.

 

[Andy Capp]

It's obviously more stupid because of how necesssary police arebin african american neighborhoods due to the behavior in those neighborhoods.

"Using a publicly-available version of PredPol's algorithm, researchers Isaac and Kristian Lum used 2010 arrest data from Oakland to predict where crimes would occur in 2011. To compare that map with what's actually going down in Oakland, researchers used data from the Census and the National Crime Victimization Survey to create a heat map showing where drug use in the city was most prevalent in 2011.

In an ideal world, the maps would be similar. But in fact, PredPol directed police to black neighborhoods like West Oakland and International Boulevard instead of zeroing in on where drug crime actually occurred. Predominantly white neighborhoods like Rockridge and Piedmont got a pass, even though white people use illicit drugs at higher rates than minorities.

To see how actual police practices in Oakland matched up with PredPol's recommendations, researchers also compared PredPol's map to a map of where Oakland Police arrested people for drug crimes. The maps were strikingly similar. Regardless of where crime is happening, predominantly black neighborhoods have about 200 times more drug arrests than other Oakland neighborhoods. In other words, police in Oakland are already doing what PredPol's map suggested — over-policing black neighborhoods — rather than zeroing in on where drug crime is happening.

"If you were to look at the data and where they're finding drug crime, it's not the same thing as where the drug crime actually is," Lum said in an interview. "Drug crime is everywhere, but police only find it where they're looking.""
...
"Because PredPol's algorithm uses reported crime and arrests to generate a heat map — as opposed to where crime actually occurs — its recommendations can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When officers are dispatched to neighborhoods where police already make a lot of arrests, they make even more, creating a feedback loop.

In a second experiment, Isaac and Lum hypothesized that sending police to neighborhoods chosen by the algorithm would lead to a jump in reported crime by 20%. The researchers fed that 20% increase in arrests back into the algorithm. The algorithm became orders of magnitude more confident that its predictions were correct.

"If police go there and find more crime, it creates a feedback loop, and the algorithm becomes more certain about these places that are over-policed," Lum said."
Crime-prediction tool may be reinforcing discriminatory policing

 

[zebby23]

What are they talking about though? Police brutality(which was the original message), or some football players kneeling during the anthem, and whether or not it's disrespectful?

The entire point of the protest has been lost, because of how irresponsible the method of protest was.

The controversy is ongoing. Right now the issue is the National Anthem and how it can/should be used. That is a smaller debate in the larger debate which is racism, police brutality and our super divisive president. It's a process.

 

[Hard To Tell]

The mainstream media, Hollywood, music industry and TV networks all failed to bully and shame people with this kind of bullshit so now they are seeing if it will work with pro sports. I'm surprised they didn't try this sooner tbh. But this will also fail and simply turn people away from watching.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

What am I going to solve? I take care of the people around me. The world is complicated.

If people said we need to solve the inner city problem, I'd get it. But it's all about race somehow. As if a black guy in a cubicle will be discriminated against the same way a black guy with gold teeth and a neck tattoo would. But they're both black and face the same challenges. Riiiiight... I don't think so. I'll be looking over my shoulder with one of these guys, but not both. So it seems to me that the race card is misunderstood and overplayed.

Once again... the world is complicated. But most minds are simple, unfortunately.

I would expect some sort of plan. Or at the very least... a goal? How could that be too much to ask for? I don't even know what I'm trying to evaluate here. This is like the Wall Street thing. Not even a motivated person in power would have any idea what the hell anyone wanted or what to do about it. This isn't Muhammad Ali refusing to fight Vietnamese, this isn't MLK fighting legislated discrimination in the South. This is completely unquantified.

So yeah, that sort of bothers me. So does the president... but Lebron calling him a bum on twitter isn't going to change the world.



I'm not on the right. Am I supposed to call you a snowflake cuck now for assuming I'm the devil? Not sure how it works, let me know. Do I say "lol" now? lol rofl at you. there.

You know, literally anything you could ever want to know is right at your fingertips?
The problem is, like you just did in your last post, you just made up some untrue, ridiculous scenario to try and explain away a problem you don't understand, nor have ever bothered to try to understand.

Believe it or not, BLM actually does have specific things that they want. They are listed. You can easily google this shit. A reasonable person would find it hard to disagree with, or at BARE MINIMUM, they would not be baffled by why all these colored people are bitching.

Here is a small example for you from their site

" Many believe the Black Lives Matter movement has no agenda — other than yelling and protesting and disrupting the lives of white people. This is also false. Since the earliest days of the movement in Ferguson, groups like the Organization for Black Struggle, the Black Lives Matter network, and others have made both clear and public a list of demands. Those demands include swift and transparent legal investigation of all police shootings of black people; official governmental tracking of the number of citizens killed by police, disaggregated by race; the demilitarization of local police forces; and community accountability mechanisms for rogue police officers. Some proposals like the recently launched Campaign Zero by a group of Ferguson activists call for body cameras on every police officer. But other groups are more reticent about this solution, since it would lead to increased surveillance and possible invasions of privacy, not to mention a massive governmental database of information about communities of color that are already heavily under surveillance by government forces."

As for the recent explosion of kneeling in sports, Im pretty sure that that is in direct protest to Trump calling attention to it. There probably isn't a plan for them other than to protest and bring attention to the problem.
BLM is a relatively new movement. I don't really agree with how they structure themselves because it makes it more difficult to get their message out since they don't have key leaders or one face to rally behind or answer questions.
But it isn't a mindless mob

 

[n...not crazy]

You know, literally anything you could ever want to know is right at your fingertips?
The problem is, like you just did in your last post, you just made up some untrue, ridiculous scenario to try and explain away a problem you don't understand, nor have ever bothered to try to understand.

Believe it or not, BLM actually does have specific things that they want. They are listed. You can easily google this shit. A reasonable person would find it hard to disagree with, or at BARE MINIMUM, they would not be baffled by why all these colored people are bitching.

Here is a small example for you from their site

" Many believe the Black Lives Matter movement has no agenda — other than yelling and protesting and disrupting the lives of white people. This is also false. Since the earliest days of the movement in Ferguson, groups like the Organization for Black Struggle, the Black Lives Matter network, and others have made both clear and public a list of demands. Those demands include swift and transparent legal investigation of all police shootings of black people; official governmental tracking of the number of citizens killed by police, disaggregated by race; the demilitarization of local police forces; and community accountability mechanisms for rogue police officers. Some proposals like the recently launched Campaign Zero by a group of Ferguson activists call for body cameras on every police officer. But other groups are more reticent about this solution, since it would lead to increased surveillance and possible invasions of privacy, not to mention a massive governmental database of information about communities of color that are already heavily under surveillance by government forces."

As for the recent explosion of kneeling in sports, Im pretty sure that that is in direct protest to Trump calling attention to it. There probably isn't a plan for them other than to protest and bring attention to the problem.
BLM is a relatively new movement. I don't really agree with how they structure themselves because it makes it more difficult to get their message out since they don't have key leaders or one face to rally behind or answer questions.
But it isn't a mindless mob

What about the below demands, are they pining for these? They didn't specify. I like police body cams. But I think the left outside linebacker for the ravens was asking for white lands.

1. White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.

2. White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.

3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

5. White people, if any of the people you intend to leave your property to are racists assholes, change the will, and will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

6. White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing.

7. White people, especially white women (because this is yaw specialty — Nosey Jenny and Meddling Kathy), get a racist fired. Yaw know what the fuck they be saying. You are complicit when you ignore them. Get your boss fired cause they racist too.

8. Backing up No. 7, this should be easy but all those sheetless Klan, Nazi’s and Other lil’ dick-white men will all be returning to work. Get they ass fired. Call the police even: they look suspicious.

9. OK, backing up No. 8, if any white person at your work, or as you enter in spaces and you overhear a white person praising the actions from yesterday, first, get a pic. Get their name and more info. Hell, find out where they work — Get Them Fired. But certainly address them, and, if you need to, you got hands: use them.

10. Commit to two things: Fighting white supremacy where and how you can (this doesn’t mean taking up knitting, unless you’re making scarves for black and brown kids in need), and funding black and brown people and their work.

 

[HereticBD]

The controversy is ongoing. Right now the issue is the National Anthem and how it can/should be used. That is a smaller debate in the larger debate which is racism, police brutality and our super divisive president. It's a process.

It is a process, but the process is going in a completely different direction than intended. The whole Trump vs NFL thing, isn't going to all of a sudden simmer down and get back to police brutality. I repeat, the point of the protest is lost, because these meatheads chose to protest in an irresponsible way.

If you're against abortions, do you protest in a way that attacks the entire medical industry? Of course not. You protest the problem you believe is within it. Unless you're a meathead of course, and think "fuck doctors!" will get your specific message across, without getting lost in the backlash received by offending every other doctor who have nothing to do with your cause.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Could you point to one person saying there isn't a problem in the United States? I keep hearing this over and over and I don't really see anyone saying this.

That's not what Im saying...or at least that isn't my overall point.
I haven't noticed anyone do it blatantly in this thread yet, but it was in the larger NFL/Trump thread.
But my point was more that people seem to be very dismissive of the problems. Their attitude basically seems to be "life is unfair. Stop whining" , or that the problem is just blacks kill each other --sooo that's the real cause of racism/black problems. Or that protesting does nothing, or that these people don't know why they're protesting and they're just attention whores.
Saying crap like that is basically saying there is no real problem. Everyone is just '"whining"

 

[Devout Pessimist]

You know, literally anything you could ever want to know is right at your fingertips?
The problem is, like you just did in your last post, you just made up some untrue, ridiculous scenario to try and explain away a problem you don't understand, nor have ever bothered to try to understand.

Believe it or not, BLM actually does have specific things that they want. They are listed. You can easily google this shit. A reasonable person would find it hard to disagree with, or at BARE MINIMUM, they would not be baffled by why all these colored people are bitching.

Here is a small example for you from their site

" Many believe the Black Lives Matter movement has no agenda — other than yelling and protesting and disrupting the lives of white people. This is also false. Since the earliest days of the movement in Ferguson, groups like the Organization for Black Struggle, the Black Lives Matter network, and others have made both clear and public a list of demands. Those demands include swift and transparent legal investigation of all police shootings of black people; official governmental tracking of the number of citizens killed by police, disaggregated by race; the demilitarization of local police forces; and community accountability mechanisms for rogue police officers. Some proposals like the recently launched Campaign Zero by a group of Ferguson activists call for body cameras on every police officer. But other groups are more reticent about this solution, since it would lead to increased surveillance and possible invasions of privacy, not to mention a massive governmental database of information about communities of color that are already heavily under surveillance by government forces."

As for the recent explosion of kneeling in sports, Im pretty sure that that is in direct protest to Trump calling attention to it. There probably isn't a plan for them other than to protest and bring attention to the problem.
BLM is a relatively new movement. I don't really agree with how they structure themselves because it makes it more difficult to get their message out since they don't have key leaders or one face to rally behind or answer questions.
But it isn't a mindless mob

Most people, especially on the right, do not have time to cater to a whiny and entitled black supremacist group like BLM. People have their own lives to worry about. They have jobs to go to and families to spend time with. They do not have time to kowtow to a silly list of demands.

If BLM was anything more than an attention-whoring hate group, then they would be in troubled black communities protesting the drugs, gangs, shootings, violence and broken families that plague those communities. Many of the problems facing troubled black communities come down to personal responsibility. They are not problems that the government and whitey can fix.

Whitey cannot force a man to stay with his wife and children. Whitey cannot stop a man from joining a gang and getting involved with drugs. Whitey cannot force someone to get an education. What is needed is an inner revolution and whitey cannot change what is inside of someone.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

What about the below demands, are they pining for these? They didn't specify. I like police body cams. But I think the left outside linebacker for the ravens was asking for white lands.

1. White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.

2. White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.

3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

5. White people, if any of the people you intend to leave your property to are racists assholes, change the will, and will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

6. White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing.

7. White people, especially white women (because this is yaw specialty — Nosey Jenny and Meddling Kathy), get a racist fired. Yaw know what the fuck they be saying. You are complicit when you ignore them. Get your boss fired cause they racist too.

8. Backing up No. 7, this should be easy but all those sheetless Klan, Nazi’s and Other lil’ dick-white men will all be returning to work. Get they ass fired. Call the police even: they look suspicious.

9. OK, backing up No. 8, if any white person at your work, or as you enter in spaces and you overhear a white person praising the actions from yesterday, first, get a pic. Get their name and more info. Hell, find out where they work — Get Them Fired. But certainly address them, and, if you need to, you got hands: use them.

10. Commit to two things: Fighting white supremacy where and how you can (this doesn’t mean taking up knitting, unless you’re making scarves for black and brown kids in need), and funding black and brown people and their work.

What is this from?
Is this one idiots blog/facebook post?
I don't live in America, so i don't follow this closely. But i did know that the organization of BLM had specific and REASONABLE demands. So it has been quite tiring to go into all of these threads and see people say over and over that there is no message...that it's all just whining.
The irony behind it is that you would think the right would want to be on board for some of this shit. Less government right? Demilitarizing the police sounds like a good start. Giving rights back to citizens sounds pretty conservative too.

As for your post, i don't know what that is, but Im pretty sure it's not from BLM. Im not defending every idiot meathead that makes dumb statements. There's going to be dummies and extremists in every large group. They don't represent the whole

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Most people, especially on the right, do not have time to cater to a whiny

Stopped reading right there, chief.
You clearly lack the brain cells to google and read for yourself. What BLM want is written out on their site and a lot of it really is pretty fucking basic shit.
Lol the only one whining in here is sensitive daffodils like yourself.
If you won't take the time to educate yourself then you might as well just go back to sniffing glue

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Stopped reading right there, chief.
You clearly lack the brain cells to google and read for yourself. What BLM want is written out on their site and a lot of it really is pretty fucking basic shit.
Lol the only one whining in here is sensitive daffodils like yourself.
If you won't take the time to educate yourself then you might as well just go back to sniffing glue

People follow the ridiculous list of demands and troubled black communities will magically change for the better? I highly doubt it. Whitey and the police could disappear tomorrow and it would not change a thing. Troubled black communities would still have to take responsibility for their lives and personal responsibility is something that following a list of demands cannot give to people. They have to do that for themselves.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Not really interested in the whole subject here, but I'm glad that people who used to support Confederate monuments and flag-waving are now becoming patriotic and disappointed that people who used to support workers being able to express political opinions at work have switched positions. @Peteyandjia.

 

[n...not crazy]

What is this from?
Is this one idiots blog/facebook post?
I don't live in America, so i don't follow this closely. But i did know that the organization of BLM had specific and REASONABLE demands. So it has been quite tiring to go into all of these threads and see people say over and over that there is no message...that it's all just whining.
The irony behind it is that you would think the right would want to be on board for some of this shit. Less government right? Demilitarizing the police sounds like a good start. Giving rights back to citizens sounds pretty conservative too.

As for your post, i don't know what that is, but Im pretty sure it's not from BLM. Im not defending every idiot meathead that makes dumb statements. There's going to be dummies and extremists in every large group. They don't represent the whole

I'm down with any reasonable demands. It's hard to keep track, so I don't know. Race-based shit gets really loud and unreasonable very quickly. The twitterverse has destroyed the planet. Even Sherdog is better than twitter.

This is why I default to taking care of the people around me. Even the ones who have brown skin.

Part of the problem is that this NFL movement began with Kaepernick, rather than an elder statesman like Demarcus Ware or someone who had respect beforehand.

Anyhoo.... "There's going to be dummies and extremists in every large group. They don't represent the whole"
As if level-headed people will ever again achieve the numbers necessary to gain control of anything. Bunch of parent-less little bastards of all colors running around out there, ready to refill the ranks of the idiots at any moment.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

People follow the ridiculous list of demands and troubled black communities will magically change for the better? I highly doubt it. Whitey and the police could disappear tomorrow and it would not change a thing. Troubled black communities would still have to take responsibility for their lives and personal responsibility is something that following a list of demands cannot give to people. They have to do that for themselves.

Ridiculous list of demands?
Do you even know what the demands are? Who said magic will happen? It's a fucking process. It isn't going to change over night
The problem with law enforcement, and black problems are not fucking intertwined as one. Blacks killing blacks doesn't erase or excuse cops killing and arresting blacks at higher rates, and courts giving them longer and harsher prison sentences than their white counterparts.

"demands include swift and transparent legal investigation of all police shootings of black people; official governmental tracking of the number of citizens killed by police, disaggregated by race; the demilitarization of local police forces; and community accountability mechanisms for rogue police officers."

Wow. Look at all those ridiculous demands!
Those aren't just good for blacks, they're good for ALL LIVES.