Arm triangle always cranks.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by leavewithalimb, Dec 18, 2011.

  1. leavewithalimb Orange Belt

    leavewithalimb
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    Someone started a thread about doing anaconda and darce chokes without cranking the neck.
    Didn't wana hijack that thread with this but I have the same question with arm triangle, even when people do it to me it's the pressure the forearm puts on the back of my neck that often gets me to tap. I get it tight but must have a positional problem I guess.

    Help cause I get this pos a bit and would be good to be able to finish properly.
     
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  2. Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

    Jagcorps_esq
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    I've never been choked by an arm triangle. I'm certain it's possible, but for me the tap is always related to the pressure on my shoulder and not any sort of blood flow stoppage.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  3. muttonwar White Belt

    muttonwar
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    Arm triangle is the only submission I have ever put someone to sleep with. It happened shortly after I watched this in a live roll at the gym.

    Rolled Up Episode 30: Evolution through Diversification with Erik Paulson
     
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  4. Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

    Jagcorps_esq
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  5. muttonwar White Belt

    muttonwar
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    Gotcha, I have actually never been choked by it either. I think the difference for me "getting" this choke was switching from a figure four grip to a gabble grip. Most people do a figure four and I don't think that works as well unless you have huge arms.
     
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  6. TSO Red Belt

    TSO
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    I use the arm triangle all the time and have put someone to sleep with it twice. That being said I sat in one that hurt like hell for a few minutes on friday and just have a soar neck from it. I noticed that most people just try to squeeze and dont cut an angle before trying to apply the choke.
     
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  7. Drew Foster Silver Belt

    Drew Foster
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    Try this. It's almost like the north/south choke sprawl but opposite.

    Get your gable grip. Keep your head on the mat. Get hip to hip. No need to walk in a circle or clock out on this one. Just stay hip to hip, and sprawl forward of that makes sense, while touching your choking elbow to the floor. That's the key is getting your own choking arm's elbow to the floor. If you can do that, and get your weight forward, on top of their neck, you should be able to get a tap while barely squeezing.
     
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  8. argy-bargy Blue Belt

    argy-bargy
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    The key to getting this choke (for me at least) is to be quite loose with your grips when you first get to side control with the choke locked up. From here (with you 'loose' triangle) you can control you opponent, and also begin to move (or jiggle) your choking arm about to get it in a bit deeper. Once you have done this, all you need to do is squeeze you bicep a bit, and if you positioned your arm properly the choke comes on very quickly.

    I think the most important part of this choke is NOT to rush once you move from mount to side control. Most of the time it seems people get it from mount then squeeze like buggery and then move to side whilst still sqeezing the whole time, this will get the tap but only because of the neck crank/pressure.

    If you focus on the arm triangle not as a submission at first and just use it to control your opponent whilst moving to a finishing position (side control) and then modifying the position of your choking arm before applying the squeeze, you will get much better results
     
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  9. BJJ_Rage Silver Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    I find girbils way much better, I love it.... if you do it right, it really feels like someone is trying to take your head off...
     
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  10. Hellboy31 Brown Belt

    Hellboy31
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    The key (for me) has always been to make sure (I'm assuming your doing it from side control, not guard) that my forehead and BOTH elbows are touching the ground. After that I just block his hip with my knee and slide my other knee outwards which sinks my hips to the ground... If I do all these things correctly, I always get the tap and it's def a choke not a crank.
     
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  11. mixmaster staph Green Belt

    mixmaster staph
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    Similarly I've never been fully choked by a d'arce, I always tap to the crank. Well apart from by Jeff Glover, he choked the shit out of me, but he doesn't count, obviously.
     
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  12. Lasse Green Belt

    Lasse
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    Never really understood this glorification of "choking" as if that means a submission is more effective or pure or something. Shouldn't the real question be "what is the most efficient way to make them tap with an armtriangle/darce/anaconda".

    If that means going for something which may turn into a crank, then why try to change into a choke? Unless that of course is more efficient then I see the reason of the "best way to choke" discussion. I just haven't seen the point been made, I'm sure it has been though and would be cool to have it answered because I've always wondered about it.

    To me it is the same as people getting jaw-cranked from the back cuz they turned their chin down who state afterwards "it wasn't a choke - i tapped cuz of a chin crank"


    Well if you got submitted due to risking an injury, you got submitted in a fair and square way unless its against the rules.

    Again like I said I might be missing out on some previous discussion on the topic "Is it more effective to try your best to adjust for the choke, or to use the shoulder and neck crank"

    Should add that I am pretty sure my arm-triangle is all choke my darces however turn into cranks a lot.
     
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  13. Hellboy31 Brown Belt

    Hellboy31
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    It's better to do the technique the correct way and save your training partners necks. Cranks keep people out of training unnecessarily.
     
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  14. Lasse Green Belt

    Lasse
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    Why is the choke correct and the crank incorrect? That is what I am trying to get the answer of. Making statements which aren't backed up with anything isn't going to help me find the answer. If you have arguments to it I would love to hear them. I have never thought about it or heard anybody discuss it further than "chokes are correct!".

    Why is it the correct way? What makes the choke a higher percentage submission than the "choke/neck-crank/shoulder-crank version".

    I am not trying to state that the choke/crank version is better I am genuinly interested in the answer.
     
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  15. AzRich75 Purple Belt

    AzRich75
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    Well I am going to wager that when something is called a choke that the intention when performed correctly is to choke, not crank. So while I also see no problem with the results in a tournament setting of achieving a tap via crank or choke, not applying the proper technique to get the choke and relying on strength to get the crank just seems like shitty BJJ.
     
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  16. mixmaster staph Green Belt

    mixmaster staph
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    Well, I think that the neck crankiness involved in a lot of arm-in chokes aren't good enough neck cranks to get the tap. They're designed to be chokes, not neck cranks, so while guys may tap in the gym, they're a lot less likely to tap in a tournament. I, personally, try to avoid arm-in chokes as much as possible for this reason, along with the fact that they don't really fit into my game too nicely. Basically, if you're gonna tap someone with a neck crank, it had better be a good neck crank that can actually cause damage. If it ain't gonna paralyse you, it's probably not a very good neck crank.
     
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  17. Lasse Green Belt

    Lasse
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    Good answer.
     
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  18. leavewithalimb Orange Belt

    leavewithalimb
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    Agreed 100%
     
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  19. TSO Red Belt

    TSO
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    No, the point of the tap is to say, "yeah, you coulda killed me"(if it's a choke). If the tap comes because of pain to something not vital then the technique didn't work.
     
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  20. rydam Banned

    rydam
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    I have found that locking the arm triangle by gripping the bicep, and just leaning into it rarely chokes people, and mostly cranks. I use the Vitor 'Shaolin' Ribeiro versio. Vitor locks it up with an S grip and moves to side, he then uses the S grip to pull the strangling arm as deep as it can go around the other side of the neck, then he drops his shoulder into it, drops his head to the near side of the mat, and walks upwards towards their head on his toes whilst pulling on the S grip the whole time, then when he is up as high as he can go, he just throws his hips back down to the floor and continues to pull his grip and squeeze the strangling arm inwards.

    This is the only variation of the arm triangle I have ever been able to put people out with ,and hits the carotid hard due to the twisting motion actually applying twisting pressure against the shoulder to push it into the carotid, and the arm is tight on the other side so it hits the other side of the carotid tight.

    Good thread, there is a lot to finishing an arm triangle successfully, as with Darces as well.
     
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