Ariel: "I dont want to see shogun fight the upper echelon at lhw"

Im with him on this one. Shogun will not have a good night vs the top guys at this point
 
Jones gave Shogun the worse beating ive ever seen. He beat him into quitting and he only had 2 years of experience in mma.

I think guys like DC and Rumble would do unspeakable harm to him that only sadists wish to see.

Ariel is 100% right
 
I have said the same since his last fight. I grew up watching Shogun. I used to love watching him fight. But it is hard to watch now (which is normal in combat sports). His punches are still well-placed and well-timed. But he hangs his punches out there and does not block against lead hooks and uppercuts well.

He can hardly throw kicks. He just doesn't have the mobility or speed anymore. I don't want to see him against a top-10 guy. I'd be happy with him retiring as is. Former UFC Champ. Had one of the best years any fighter has had with the LHW tournament. Some amazing wars and wins.
 
Irishwhiskey119 said:
Rua was lighting Villante up like crazy which isn't some impressive feat but it's still accurate shots and capable skills he is showing.

Where exactly does he suck as a stand up threat? lol

He is going to be more chinny with age and he laziness in training makes his cardio shit but Rumble also has shit cardio after missing power shots and getting laid on the whole fight.

I think you are extremely dumb for not seeing the reality of the variables with each guy.
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Yeah it's accurate shots and skill but Shogun is a fuckin shot athlete at this point and it shows. Rumble being a greater standup threat TODAY is based on empirical evidence: Rumble consistently knocks out and outstrikes the best 205ers in the division while Shogun got KTFOed by OSP and had to resort to fighting lower top10-15 LHWs like Anderson, Little Nog and Vilante just to regain some Ws on his belt. Even then Little Nog still outstruck Shogun and had him shooting for TDs... you know the same dude that AJ crushed in less than 1 minute by KO. Or should we compare their respective performances against Gust?

Also, Shogun gets clipped clean in almost every fight and the better your defence is, like Anthony Johnson's, the longer you are viable in the fight to remain a standup threat.

This isn't 2005 anymore. I love Shogun but to act like Anthony Johnson isn't a bigger standup threat in the 205 division than Shogun is pure insanity: empirical evidence states the contrary. So yeah if following the evidence makes me "extremely dumb" then so be it. Maybe you need to lay off the whiskey...
 
Lol people hating on Ariel for saying the same thing that tons of you say. I've seen a lot of people here say very similar things about how they don't want to see him get demolished by the top guys, but when Ariel says it, it's a problem and we should hate on him for it? It's OK for you to say it, but not him? idiots.

I don't want to see Shogun mauled by the top guys either, but at the same time I want to see if he's still capable of competing with them at all. He's a professional fighter, this is what he does for a living. He's considered as one of the best LHW's of all time and he's clearly past his prime now, but you can't just hold the guy down because of that.

If he keeps beating all of these other guys and making his way up, then they'll have no choice but to put him in there with one of the elite. Just because we or Dana/UFC fear for his health doesn't mean they should basically fuck the guy out of possibly having some success. We don't truly know what's going to happen. He isn't the same fighter anymore, but that doesn't mean he can't possibly beat anybody at the top, he just has to land that right hand and it can put down almost anybody.

Shogun isn't the same fighter physically speaking, but skillwise he's actually better than he's ever been before. Shogun can't rely on his once insane ability to take ridiculous punishment and still win, he has to fight more intelligently now and he's doing quite well because of it. He'll get fucked up by any of the top guys and we all know it, but that doesn't mean he hasn't earned the right to get in there with any of them with his recent string of wins.

Give him one more chance against the top dogs and if it goes as bad as we all think it will, he should get the Chuck Liddell treatment. As of right now, it's hard to deny him a top opponent. He deserves a higher ranked opponent now, so give it to him and if it goes bad then it goes bad. Shogun is a big boy, he can take care of himself.
 
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rakeleaves said:
Yeah it's accurate shots and skill but Shogun is a fuckin shot athlete at this point and it shows. Rumble being a greater standup threat TODAY is based on empirical evidence: Rumble consistently knocks out and outstrikes the best 205ers in the division while Shogun got KTFOed by OSP and had to resort to fighting lower top10-15 LHWs like Anderson, Little Nog and Vilante just to regain some Ws on his belt. Even then Little Nog still outstruck Shogun and had him shooting for TDs... you know the same dude that AJ crushed in less than 1 minute by KO. Or should we compare their respective performances against Gust?

Also, Shogun gets clipped clean in almost every fight and the better your defence is, like Anthony Johnson's, the longer you are viable in the fight to remain a standup threat.

This isn't 2005 anymore. I love Shogun but to act like Anthony Johnson isn't a bigger standup threat in the 205 division than Shogun is pure insanity: empirical evidence states the contrary. So yeah if following the evidence makes me "extremely dumb" then so be it. Maybe you need to lay off the whiskey...
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It doesn't show that he's a shot athlete at all. lol

He's older and slower but he's still capable of being athletic in the cage.

My point stands as accurate and if he earns a shot vs somebody on the top then he should get it and he CAN win those fights although more times than not he loses.

I don't need to lay off anything as i know more about this sport than you ever will.
 
Irishwhiskey119 said:
It doesn't show that he's a shot athlete at all. lol

He's older and slower but he's still capable of being athletic in the cage.

My point stands as accurate and if he earns a shot vs somebody on the top then he should get it and he CAN win those fights although more times than not he loses.

I don't need to lay off anything as i know more about this sport than you ever will.
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He moves in slow motion - in terms of athleticism he definitely is shot: chin not so much. 205 is just a barren wasteland.

I cite empirical evidence and you deny reality and cite some vauge "personal experience/knowledge" as if that holds any weight on the internet. Ok well sure he "can" win but what percentage are we talking here? First you said AJ wasn't a more effective striker at 205 than Shogun and now you are backtracking to claiming there is a possibility Shogun can win. Well no shit he "can" win... but not bloody likely against the top5.

But yeah if Shogun vs Rumble ever happens go lay a bet on Shogun with your "insider" knowledge because the line would have Shogun at a -400 underdog at least.
 
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Irishwhiskey119 said:
Well the chances are a bit tough i agree. DC is too strong in the grappling department but Rua has a lot better ability of getting up from his back than Rumble does and Rua still has finishing ability in his stand up so the potential for victory is there.

I'd for sure agree DC is the favorite but it's not some runaway easy win like people think it is.
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Shogun had a hell of a time getting up against Sonnen ffs. But he has a better shot against DC than he does against Rumble.
 
rakeleaves said:
He moves in slow motion - in terms of athleticism he definitely is shot: chin not so much. 205 is just a barren wasteland.

I cite empirical evidence and you deny reality and cite some vauge "personal experience/knowledge" as if that holds any weight on the internet. Ok well sure he "can" win but what percentage are we talking here? First you said AJ wasn't a more effective striker at 205 than Shogun and now you are backtracking to claiming there is a possibility Shogun can win. Well no shit he "can" win... but not bloody likely against the top5.

But yeah if Shogun vs Rumble ever happens go lay a bet on Shogun with your "insider" knowledge because the line would have Shogun at a -400 underdog at least.
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I didn't read any of that.

I already schooled you.
 
Irishwhiskey119 said:
That's correct.

Rumble wouldn't get up from under Sonnen either.
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I seem to recall Rumble getting out from under Cormier a couple of times. And while Sonnen doesn't exactly equate to Cormier I'd say chances are Rumble would find a way to stand up again a few times.
 
CorporateTool said:
I seem to recall Rumble getting out from under Cormier a couple of times. And while Sonnen doesn't exactly equate to Cormier I'd say chances are Rumble would find a way to stand up again a few times.
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Rumble got laid on and dominated. lol

Rua was getting up and out of people like Henderson late in fights because he has technique while Rumble only had athletic burst. Keep replying though i'll go all night.
 
JunkieMan said:
He has not looked great against mediocre competition in his last 3 fights. He gets tagged quite a bit now and with his injuries and that chin on the decline I just feel once he steps in against a top 10 guy with a good gameplan and heavy hands it just turns into a disaster I feel. He is my all time favorite competitor but I don't believe he can hang with many in the top 10.
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Then you need to look at the rankings. The LHW division is pitiful.
 
Irishwhiskey119 said:
Rumble got laid on and dominated. lol

Rua was getting up and out of people like Henderson late in fights because he has technique while Rumble only had athletic burst. Keep replying though i'll go all night.
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You are correct. However in rounds 1 and 3 when they were primarily engaging in grappling exchanges against the cage Rumble was able to get back to his feet a couple of times. Didn't do him much good, but against Sonnen I think he'd have better luck seeing as Sonnen has had much less success at 205, being a bit undersized for that division.
 
CorporateTool said:
You are correct. However in rounds 1 and 3 when they were primarily engaging in grappling exchanges against the cage Rumble was able to get back to his feet a couple of times. Didn't do him much good, but against Sonnen I think he'd have better luck seeing as Sonnen has had much less success at 205, being a bit undersized for that division.
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I'm always correct.

Sonnen took Rua down and Rua immediately got back up and then took Sonnen down. Sonnen was also using PEDs heavily at this time.

If Rumble were to fight that version of Chael then he wouldn't have gotten up.
 
Irishwhiskey119 said:
I'm always correct.

Sonnen took Rua down and Rua immediately got back up and then took Sonnen down. Sonnen was also using PEDs heavily at this time.

If Rumble were to fight that version of Chael then he wouldn't have gotten up.
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That's nice dear.
 
Let Shogun fight the winner of Oezdermir/Cirkunov... If he wins, give him a top guy ffs!
 
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