Are there actually men here that prefer WMMA not be relegated to seperate cards? | Page 14

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Njmma209, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. welcometohavoc Yellow Card

    welcometohavoc
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    Problem is what happens when they retire? The only reason those guys became stars/draws is because they were allowed to fight on cards where everyone could see them.

    if you relegate women to their own cards/promotion, you're not going to have any Cyborgs, Nunes, JJ's, etc in the future because no one is going to know who they are when you bring them up to the main card
     
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  2. welcometohavoc Yellow Card

    welcometohavoc
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    To be fair, MMA pay is trash in general and even worse for women. If they want to generate interest/money using their bodies I don't have a problem with it. No different than guys like DJ and others streaming on Twitch to supplement their income
     
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  3. MastiffMike The BIG dog is here

    MastiffMike
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    And they were ranked 5th in the world at that time.

    The US World Cup winning women's team lost 5-2 to an under 15 boys teams (and that's not even high school aged, that's fucking Middle Schoolers!)
    https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/ne...-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

    The "best" women's soccer team in the world lost to a bunch of 14 year olds.
    <36>
     
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  4. Gambit MMA Double Yellow Card

    Gambit MMA
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    thats true, but i dont think their will ever be another cyborg lol. im not even sure they'l keep womens 145 around much after shes gone. that divsion was created solely for her - how many other female fighters can fight in that class? they cant even put together a top 10 list of challengers, its been all 135ers coming up to fight cyborg. that division has no future once shes gone imo
     
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  5. Oeshon ช่างมันเถอะ

    Oeshon
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    #265
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  6. SuperNerd Playoff Mode.

    SuperNerd
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    While all this remains true, it doesn't carry through MMA.

    In sports, there are feats. You run fast, you hit hard, you throw far. There is a field you have to over come. There is rim you have to reach, this ice you have to skate. These are not done well by women.

    In WMMA, there is only another 125 woman in their way. The field has shifted. They only have to overcome another 125 female. It's a different game. It comes down to their technique and abilities. They are not attempting to out-do a HW male striker.

    Honestly, don't enjoy WMMA. I don't care strong for WMMA. Most people I know don't. Most people I know don't enjoy MMA. I don't care, I just don't think your logic adds up here.
     
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  7. glenwo2 Green Belt

    glenwo2
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    Those women(and in Cyborg's case, I use that term very loosely) move the proverbial needle as far as us 95% are concerned.

    A few QUALITY women's fights are acceptable.
     
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  8. basedgodfedor Black Belt

    basedgodfedor
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    Yeah like in every other sport right?
     
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  9. soulsstealer Silver Belt

    soulsstealer
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    the women make the ufc more money. i think ufc fighters should take a paycut and give it to the women instead.
     
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  10. Oeshon ช่างมันเถอะ

    Oeshon
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    WMMA sucks and women are vastly inferior. Facts bruh.

    If we were spiders, then I'd prefer watching the female spiders throw down instead of the males.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. DoctorNick Blue Belt

    DoctorNick
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    I just skip most of the fights, they are laughably low quality other than the top few of each division. I wish they would try an all women's card, just so it could be shown how hard they get carried by the dudes.
     
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  12. HARDCORE CHINO Purple Belt

    HARDCORE CHINO
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    WMMA worst than amateur fights
     
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  13. MilesAbove Gold Belt

    MilesAbove
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    2. There are plenty of generic men fights I truly don't care about. There's some female fights I don't care about either, but at least winners are a win/two away from a title shot. The guys.... they get a win and they're 6-7 fights away. By the time they fight again I forgot who they were.
     
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  14. MastiffMike The BIG dog is here

    MastiffMike
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    So you're saying that because there's no ball/basket/whatever that mma isn't skill based?

    Your mma example of a women versus another woman doesn't also work for women's tennis coming "down to their technique and abilities"? Doesn't work for women's boxing coming "down to their technique and abilities"? Women's soccer coming "down to their technique and abilities"? Women's track events coming "down to their technique and abilities"? EVERY sport has a HUGE element of skill, otherwise it's not a sport but instead a hobby.

    On a tangent of men versus women, take for example one of the few sports that women are not at a physical disadvantage:
    Poker is a sport that takes little athletic ability (OK, it takes focus and huge tournaments take stamina) but lots of skill to be successful at (and luck helps, but pro players aren't just luckier than those they beat - they're better). Obviously more men compete than women, but how do women do compared to men? I honestly don't know but I'd be surprised if they do as well, and absolutely floored if they did better (sure women win tournaments, but overall the men are better - for whatever reason). I just did a quick Google and looked at 3 different Top 10 lists and there wasn't a single woman on any of them. One list went beyond just the top 10 and the highest ranked woman is 24th. I'm not sure why women aren't more prevalent in the poker rankings but it's not due to a lack of athletic ability.

    But back to your post:
    The skill of basketball has little to do with being able to dunk and much more to do with athletic ability (especially as it compares to your opponent) and skill/technique. Why do the best women's soccer players in the world lose to 14 year old boys? It's not because the women are shorter and can't dunk, it's because they are less skilled. Why do men routinely beat women at tennis? Is being male makes you somehow inherently better at hitting the ball over the net? Or is it because they're more skilled? Women versus men in Golf? Same thing, men are more skilled (and also more physically skilled).

    IMO one of the biggest reasons women (in general) are not as skilled in mma as men is their opportunities pre turning pro. There aren't that many female wrestlers (though probably more now than ever) or female taking up a combat (especially contact) sport in their teens. By the time most Wmma fighter's start training they're already 10 years older than the average male fighter started. This is why one trick Ronda was able to be successful, because she was competing against part timers without a decade+ of training. But even in sports where women do have the same opportunities at young ages as boys/men, their skill level still isn't equal to men (somewhat tied to physiology and the physical benefits of males). But even in popular "graceful" based sports like ice skating, men are better than women (though sex appeal helps women's be more popular to watch).

    But regardless of skill, women's combat sport will never be as popular as men's. That's just human nature. Studies have been done (for decades) and people tend to not like watching women compete in physical sports and prefer sports that rely heavily on "grace" (i.e. gynastics, diving, ice skating). Watching a woman get hit in the face, even when done by another woman, will just never be as acceptable as men fighting. Women have been boxing since the 1800's, and there was a women's boxing boom in the late 1990's and early 2000's (the movie Million Dollar Baby even won a bunch of Oscars) yet still today it struggles.

    People say give the women time and in a few years they'll be as skilled as the men and it'll be as popular as male mma. I disagree. If that were the case than why isn't women's boxing bigger? Why is the Wnba a money pit? Etc.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  15. Tweak896 Brown Belt

    Tweak896
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    Im mixed about wmma. Some fights are more interesting than many men fights, but every single time they throw shitty wmma fighters on the main card I wanna ban women from UFC.

    I think some bruce lee style chick with crazy technical striking could take over and be a superstar one day. Women aren't as strong as men but they can be faster and more flexible. I see no reason a chick couldn't have matrix-tier striking.

    Skills may never get to the guy's level overall, but by keeping them in the ufc, it gives some young girl today reason to train to the top level.
     
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  16. SuperNerd Playoff Mode.

    SuperNerd
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    No. Not even close Mr. Newman.

    skill
    noun
    1. the ability to do something well; expertise.
      • a particular ability
    my comment was "It comes down to their technique and abilities." aka, their skill sets.

    That's a major reason for weight classes in combat sport. So the bouts are determined by ability and skill, not physical advantages. This is untrue in sport. Physical advantages are exploited in sport.

    Men and women are not mentally equal either. I would not conclude the only difference is physical. Men destroy women at chess.

    Yes. I agree and my point remains the same.

    In MMA, their only competition and problem is another 125 female. If you compare them to males, they will come up short. But they do not compete with them. They are playing a different game, with estrogen and less weight. In football, in basketball, they're all trying to do physical feats. You need strength and testosterone to do that well. In MMA, they're only trying to bash another 125 girl.

    No I don't think any NBA fans want to watch WNBA during half time because that's stupid for one, and they don't do it well. Are you telling us, you don't want to watch 125 women compete against each other because men are better at beating up 125 lbs women? I really don't think that's your reasoning.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  17. fzoid4454 Purple Belt

    fzoid4454
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    No need to separate them out.
     
    #277
  18. MastiffMike The BIG dog is here

    MastiffMike
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    And that's my point. Wmma will NEVER be on the same skill level as mma, and that's part of the reason (though not the only) that it will never be as popular. Why do people accept that women's basketball is less pleasing to watch than men's, but yet can't understand why the same holds true for Wmma (and women's boxing, women's hockey, pretty much all women's sports that don't involve grace and sex appeal, but mainly sex appeal)?

    BTW, studies have been done that show that even women prefer to watch men sports more than women's (though obviously it is sport dependent, but in general)

    Of course that's not my reasoning. Women fighting women just will never be as popular as men fighting men. Fast forward 20 years and Wmma still won't be as popular as mma (just like Wnba won't be as popular as the NBA - and the Wnba probably won't even be around). It's not like women just started martial arts last week, they've been competing in mma just about as long as the men (started in 1995 whereas UFC 1 was 1993). So the lack of skill level isn't due to Wmma being new, just that it's not as popular nor as populated.

    The only thing keeping women's basketball afloat is the fact the nba subsidizes it and the only reason Wmma is around is off the support of the men (and the UFC).

    One thing I'd be interested in is what ratings/viewership is for Invicta cards? How many ppvs do they sell? How is it trending (up/down)?
     
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  19. DragRacer Black Belt

    DragRacer
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    I used to buy every PPV.
    WMMA is a garbage joke to me and I resented it being put on cards I was paying for, so I stopped buying them. I know I’m just one customer, but I’m definitely not the only one who feels this way.
     
    #279
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  20. JayE Black Belt

    JayE
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    Probably not, but people have only ever bought en masse for big draws, and the female fighters, overall, have been a net positive for profits (partly because they're even easier to give shit money to, but that's another discussion). Any argument against WMMA on UFC cards can't really include profit margins as they simply fall flat. I don't care for WMMA, but then again I selectively watch the fights I care about, anyway (a majority of fights under the UFC banner fall are in that criteria), so it's not really a big deal.
     
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