Are Stipe's opponents "that" impressive in retrospect.

I respect his achievements, I recognise that he has been something we are not accustomed to, which is a consistent Heavyweight. That said, I don't think he's some unstoppable force with skills for days.

I think he has some semblance of boxing skill and understands the fundamentals of defense and head movement, unlike Werdum, Overeem and dos Santos. I remember a time where Junior dos Santos' boxing looked incredible for an MMA fighter, but when you see him back up with his hands down and his chin in the sky time and time again, you start to smell the coffee.

Stipe also has some solid wrestling. Enough to beat on big guys with no floor skills like Hunt and Ngannou, as well as good enough to stop Overeem or Werdum from submitting him. That said, he's not faced one elite wrestler, actually, not even a half decent one.

I just want to see a challenge, that's all.

You can't judge HWs the same way you judge smaller fighters. No he isn't some hyper skilled DJ type fighter. What he is, is the unquestioned best HW of the current era. He's 35 years old himself, it's not like this is some young cat coming up and catching all these out of prime fighters.

The Werdum he beat was fresh off the best performance of his entire storied career. The Overeem he fought had just crane kicked Arlovski's head off and KO'd JDS. Francis was on an incredible KO streak. I'll give you JDS wasn't at his best but Stipe also fought JDS at his best before Stipe was at his best and almost beat him then too. Hunt and Arlovski are still pretty good fighters and Stipe absolutely destroyed both of them, neither guy got in even a bit of offence against him

You can't just write the guy off because the guys he's beating has holes, because they always had these holes and yet there wasn't anyone else running through all of them

You can only beat the fighters in front of you and Stipe is beating them all and doing it by either first round KO, or 5 round destruction. What more are you looking for here?

What wrestler should he have fought? Brock is suspended, Cain is hurt, Blaydes got smashed by Ngannou and DC dropped because he loves Cain. And he's about to fight one now and probably another in his next fight if he wins (Blaydes or Brock). And yet, if he does, all we'll probably hear about is how he beat a LHW and a washed up (Brock) or green (Blaydes) fighter
 
I guess Ngannou is "too raw".

Werdum coming of a 6 win streak including his last two oppoentns being Hunt and Cain and on one of the best runs of his resurging career, is "too old".

I guess when every old fighter loses, they were out of their primes according to Sherdog....
It's not that, it's about seeing what's actually happening.

Ngannou isn't "too raw", he's literally a hype job with absolutely no skill on the ground. Can you even say with a straight face that anyone who has gone toe to toe with Francis on the feet, actually showed any fundamental boxing skill? Did anyone kick his legs? Did anyone sway a shot? What the hell was Overeem doing in their bout? Stipe beating Ngannou was impressive, but he pretty much lay on an exhausted hype job for 5 rounds.

Werdum was coming off a hiatus of a year prior to their fight, came in pudgy (USADA cough cough) and has never looked the same physically since they arrived. The guy hasn't beaten one top opponent since his loss to Stipe, and the guy is in his 40's, please let's not forget that.
 
He fought Werdum after he submitted Fedor's and Cain's ass. He fought Ngannou who all hype train BS aside is one of the more heavy handed guys in this game. Now he is fighting DC. Isn't DC your "elite" wrestler? Will that fight prove something to you?
1. Werdum did not once take Fedor or Cain down.
2. Ngannou had no ability to keep the fight standing and your average blue belt is better than him on the ground.
3. They haven't fought yet, and he's a Light Heavyweight.
 
You can't judge HWs the same way you judge smaller fighters. No he isn't some hyper skilled DJ type fighter. What he is, is the unquestioned best HW of the current era. He's 35 years old himself, it's not like this is some young cat coming up and catching all these out of prime fighters.

The Werdum he beat was fresh off the best performance of his entire storied career. The Overeem he fought had just crane kicked Arlovski's head off and KO'd JDS. Francis was on an incredible KO streak. I'll give you JDS wasn't at his best but Stipe also fought JDS at his best before Stipe was at his best and almost beat him then too. Hunt and Arlovski are still pretty good fighters and Stipe absolutely destroyed both of them, neither guy got in even a bit of offence against him

You can't just write the guy off because the guys he's beating has holes, because they always had these holes and yet there wasn't anyone else running through all of them

You can only beat the fighters in front of you and Stipe is beating them all and doing it by either first round KO, or 5 round destruction. What more are you looking for here?

What wrestler should he have fought? Brock is suspended, Cain is hurt, Blaydes got smashed by Ngannou and DC dropped because he loves Cain. And he's about to fight one now and probably another in his next fight if he wins (Blaydes or Brock). And yet, if he does, all we'll probably hear about is how he beat a LHW and a washed up (Brock) or green (Blaydes) fighter
"but Stipe also fought JDS at his best before Stipe was at his best and almost beat him then too."

What...are...u...talkin´about...

cruz.gif
 
I previously created a thread called "Is Stipe Miocic Overrated", and I mapped out my thoughts on who he had beaten and how they may be a little past it, I think it's now worth revisiting this idea.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/is-stipe-miocic-overrated.3615989/#post-133703029

First off, you can only beat who's put in front of you, so with that said we all know that Miocic has a great resume. He's a good fighter, tough son of a bitch and has been very consistent as of late.

On the flip side, we all know how bad the Heavyweight division is and I think we fall in love with the names and memories of these fighters. Overeem used to be great, dos Santos used to be great, Werdum used to be great - but all these guys are completely over the hill at this stage.

I'll be very interested to see Stipe fight DC, and perhaps Volkov and Blaydes somewhere down the line. I feel like he has been very fortunate in terms of when he has fought these guys and also who he's fought in some sense also. Roy Nelson is a poor excuse for an athlete, a guy who could probably make Light Heavyweight with any semblance of a diet, Mark Hunt is a fan favourite but if we keep it real has no grappling skill, Arlovski is a slow, plodding, over the hill striker, Fabricio is over the hill, Overeem has no chin left, dos Santos looks like a shell of himself since USADA showed up and Ngannou has literally zero grappling skill also. Is it too much to ask for a well rounded fighter to show up for once?

Wouldn't it have been great to see him against Velasquez? I genuinely feel like that would have been the perfect match-up to see him in, and it looks like we'll never get that now.

I'll leave you with the records of the fighters he beat since he beat them:

Roy Nelson - 4-7
Mark Hunt - 3-3
Andrei Arlovski - 2-5
Fabricio Werdum - 3-2 (All 3 wins were over very mediocre talent)
Alistair Overeem - 2-2
Junior dos Santos - 0-0 (Fighting an unranked opponent in his next fight)
Francis Ngannou - 0-0 (Fighting Derrick Lewis next)

I think Stipe is a product of a very, very, very bad division.
I agree. I'm not trying to bash Stipe whatsoever. I was telling people they were insane for picking Ngannou over Stipe. I'm just calling it like I see it.

But Stipe is a product of circumstance. He duck Rothwell hard. Blasted shot AA. Blasted Werdum who thought he could just charge out the gate chin first. Was losing to Overeem and almost got finished then Overeem's chin got touched. Blessed JDS (who can thank his toughness and his corner's stupidity for letting him go out for extra rounds against Cain and basically derailing his career). Then he show Ngannou the mixed part of MMA.

He is champ of an over the hill division.
 
Yeah no point in arguing with people like the TS. He doesn't like Stipe so he's out to prove he isn't good, whether or not his arguments are stupid. One of the worst kinds of posters
Well firstly, you're agreeing with a guy who is wrong in his statement.

I never once said that Cain is mediocre, in fact I said the absolute contrary in my OP lol.

I don't dislike Stipe, I just disagree with some of the notions that he's the best Heavyweight we've ever seen, and I also don't feel like he's fought any top level talent in their prime. He's beaten a bunch of weathered, over the hill guys.
 
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I respect his achievements, I recognise that he has been something we are not accustomed to, which is a consistent Heavyweight. That said, I don't think he's some unstoppable force with skills for days.

I think he has some semblance of boxing skill and understands the fundamentals of defense and head movement, unlike Werdum, Overeem and dos Santos. I remember a time where Junior dos Santos' boxing looked incredible for an MMA fighter, but when you see him back up with his hands down and his chin in the sky time and time again, you start to smell the coffee.

Stipe also has some solid wrestling. Enough to beat on big guys with no floor skills like Hunt and Ngannou, as well as good enough to stop Overeem or Werdum from submitting him. That said, he's not faced one elite wrestler, actually, not even a half decent one.

I just want to see a challenge, that's all.

i don't understand this?

you don't think he's some kind of unstoppable force with skills for days? but in the same breath you say you want to see a challenge?

nobody thinks he's an unstoppable force, so i don't understand that part. in fact, everyone thinks he's just fluking his way to being the greatest UFC HW ever.

as far as you just want to see a challenge? wasn't his fight with Ngannou challenging? he showed some exquisite head movement that almost no other HW has shown, even great strikers like Overeem and Hunt do not have this skill.

wasn't his Overeem fight challenging? he did nearly get KO'd a few times. or how about JDS when he kicked Stipe's leg and it swole up like a balloon?

it's not like Stipe has just steamrolled everyone by boring controlling decision. i think he's had a pretty challenging schedule.
 
Not as impressive as Zuluzinho man don't worry your idol is safe we all adore him.
1. He's not my idol.
2. Fabricio or Alistair are probably my favourite Heavyweight fighters.
3. I called my own favourite fighters, shot, old and over the hill in this thread.
4. If you really want to talk about Fedor, it's not even close who is better.
 
DC poses a different threat to Stipe with his wrestling.
I expect a different outcome of this fight.
Maybe a decision.
 
1. Werdum did not once take Fedor or Cain down.
2. Ngannou had no ability to keep the fight standing and your average blue belt is better than him on the ground.
3. They haven't fought yet, and he's a Light Heavyweight.

1. Werdum choked the shit out of Fedor and Cain. What take down are you talking about? If Fedor's one was luck it wasn't Cain's who went for a double after being destroyed in the stand up.
2. This is precisely why Stipe is great. He is well rounded. If Ngannou was well rounded we would talk about how great he is.
3. I totally expected this.
 
For anyone who wants a reminder of how bad some of his opponents are, please watch this.



I love Overeem, but I'm tired of his K1 championship being brought up as a qualifier of how amazing his striking is. The guys is straight up trash these days and is making a habit of being brutally KO'd.

He literally gasses inside of 2 minutes in this fight and throws a total of about 10 strikes. Even with that small output, he manages to put Stipe on his ass. Also, go back and remind yourself of how bad the performances of Werdum (running straight forward with no defense), Ngannou (gassed worse than any fighter I've ever seen), dos Santos (didn't even put his hands up) were.


maybe you should become a coach and teach these noobs how to fight.
 
Yeah no point in arguing with people like the TS. He doesn't like Stipe so he's out to prove he isn't good, whether or not his arguments are stupid. One of the worst kinds of posters
The argument that Stipe is a Modern MMA Larry Holmes looks decent to me... unless u have a personal beef with TS...
 
TS is right Stipe makes everyone look bad. I'm sure DC is old and washed up and never that good at HW and couldn't even finish Mir and what other BS after July 7th.
Nope, only fair excuse will be that DC isn't really a proper Heavyweight.

That said, I'm picking DC to win, so I don't think I'll have any excuses. This will easily be Stipe's best win if he wins.

All that said, DC is like 2 fights from retirement, so again, I would love to see him fight a fighter who is well rounded and actually in their prime. It appears that it's almost impossible to get that these days at Heavyweight.
 
1. Werdum choked the shit out of Fedor and Cain. What take down are you talking about? If Fedor's one was luck it wasn't Cain's who went for a double after being destroyed in the stand up.
2. This is precisely why Stipe is great. He is well rounded. If Ngannou was well rounded we would talk about how great he is.
3. I totally expected this.
Modern MMA Fans:

Well Rounded = Decent Striking + Ground Control.
 
"but Stipe also fought JDS at his best before Stipe was at his best and almost beat him then too."

What...are...u...talkin´about...

View attachment 397509

I'm shocked that you would jump into a Stipe hate thread

Shocked

Stipe fought JDS pre-USADA and when he was still good and lost a close decision and a great fight

They fought again when JDS was declined and Stipe murdered him
 
I respect his achievements, I recognise that he has been something we are not accustomed to, which is a consistent Heavyweight. That said, I don't think he's some unstoppable force with skills for days.

I think he has some semblance of boxing skill and understands the fundamentals of defense and head movement, unlike Werdum, Overeem and dos Santos. I remember a time where Junior dos Santos' boxing looked incredible for an MMA fighter, but when you see him back up with his hands down and his chin in the sky time and time again, you start to smell the coffee.

Stipe also has some solid wrestling. Enough to beat on big guys with no floor skills like Hunt and Ngannou, as well as good enough to stop Overeem or Werdum from submitting him. That said, he's not faced one elite wrestler, actually, not even a half decent one.

I just want to see a challenge, that's all.
He's one of, if not the best heavyweight of all time. He isn't just well rounded, he is excels in every way you'd want a heavyweight to. His chin is great, he great cardio at HW, has legit knockout power in each hand even from odd angles, great fight iq, above average footwork, high mental strength, good grappling and fantastic wrestling. He's a handful for any heavyweight, past, present and future.

And he did it all while working as a firefighter... I mean, get fucking real and give Stipe the credit he deserves kid.
 
UFC geeks wish Stipe was as good as they say but really he's a poor mans Kharitonov with a good single leg. A good fighter who is lucky he fought over the hill 40 year old heavyweights.

Prime Fedor, Mirko and Nog all mop him up easy.
 
Nope, only fair excuse will be that DC isn't really a proper Heavyweight.

That said, I'm picking DC to win, so I don't think I'll have any excuses. This will easily be Stipe's best win if he wins.

All that said, DC is like 2 fights from retirement, so again, I would love to see him fight a fighter who is well rounded and actually in their prime. It appears that it's almost impossible to get that these days at Heavyweight.

So you're basically confirming that there is absolutely nothing Stipe could do that would make you respect his accomplishments and acknowledge how good he is
 
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