Are school shootings simply the result of capitalism?

[Neph]

Have you looked at the map of gun violence?Take away 4 cities and we drop to 4th from the bottom
It's not firearms.

citation needed

 

[silicavaginitis]

citation needed

If I show it to you....would you even believe it?

 

[Neph]

If I show it to you....would you even believe it?

I think based on your last posts we've reached the point where the discussion isn't really progressing. I wrote a lengthy post which you chose to intepret as drink drivers, and now you make claims and won't provide facts and worse, question the integrity of the person you are discussing it with. I don't believe you are honestly interested in a conversation about the subject and I will instead respond to other people who are more involved. I appreciate the talk so far, thanks.

 

[silicavaginitis]

I think based on your last posts we've reached the point where the discussion isn't really progressing. I wrote a lengthy post which you chose to intepret as drink drivers, and now you make claims and won't provide facts and worse, question the integrity of the person you are discussing it with. I don't believe you are honestly interested in a conversation about the subject and I will instead respond to other people who are more involved. I appreciate the talk so far, thanks.

Damn dude go fondle your boyfriend.....I didn't say I wouldn't make citations.I just said you wouldn't believe them....perhaps ask your partner to read for you....This one is a little old but still applicable.


From 2014....if you feel like you need to try build your ego....dig further.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

 

[nhbbear]

So do you feel that American gun ownership is inherently reprehensible or do you feel that even with as many Americans as we have owning guns it would be less of a problem if more Americans changed their relationship with guns? I would think that even the majority of NRA types understand conceptually that guns are not toys in any sense of the manner; that said, maybe it really is only a small minority that has the issues here.

We have a lot of mentally ill people. They want to commit suicide. They have access to guns. Now, they know they can do that, and take people with them, and they will be reviled and remembered forever. Maybe that pull is too great for some, maybe they are so angry that they want to cause pain and suffering.

But it is a small number of people that would do this. Many think about it, but few do it. We have far more people that will shoot someone over gang or drug issues just to break up the boredom of their lives and to gain status.

 

[Codpiece]

....are you guys denying that there isn't a segment of the population that obsesses over their guns?

I think there are a lot of people, young men especially, who are frequently faced with glorified depictions of gun violence packaged as entertainment and as a result who look at a firearm as more than just a weapon.

Capitalism is related, sure. But I think there are some more direct and impactful factors. Interesting thread though. Good read.

 

[wonderbread]

I made this post in the Florida thread, and thought maybe it deserved it's own.

I'm pretty sure that it is a widely accepted fact that while household firearm ownership has been dropping, gun sales have been up in the last 30+ years because fewer people are stockpiling more and more weapons than they used to. I have seen arguments that this was the result of a marketing campaign by the gun industry (in response to falling household ownership (profits) in the 70's) to target their hardcore buyers by offering more options, interchangeable parts, colors, specialty guns, etc., creating a fetish of sorts.

I don't think anyone would disagree that we live in a hyper-consumeristic society, and, along with social media and the Internet, ultimately leads us to shorter and shorter attention spans. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this would then result in a much higher prevalence of compulsive behaviors. These people then seek treatment, and voila, we have a significant portion of the population on psychotropic medications.

You now have a portion of the population who are big time gun enthusiasts/borderline fetishists, have 2-second attention spans, are OCD, and on some kind of behavior altering medications.

Whether it's romanticizing guns in Soldier of Fortune magazines, adding a new colorful handle for the "sport shooting" crowd, Doctors prescribing meds, pharma corporations pushing those meds, or consumerism in general, it's all driven by the desire to improve the bottom line. Capitalism.

So is capitalism partly to blame?

The US’s version of capitalism is what will kill the USA. It had bred greed and corruption. The worse has yet to come.

 

[Rainer]

I made this post in the Florida thread, and thought maybe it deserved it's own.

I'm pretty sure that it is a widely accepted fact that while household firearm ownership has been dropping, gun sales have been up in the last 30+ years because fewer people are stockpiling more and more weapons than they used to. I have seen arguments that this was the result of a marketing campaign by the gun industry (in response to falling household ownership (profits) in the 70's) to target their hardcore buyers by offering more options, interchangeable parts, colors, specialty guns, etc., creating a fetish of sorts.

I don't think anyone would disagree that we live in a hyper-consumeristic society, and, along with social media and the Internet, ultimately leads us to shorter and shorter attention spans. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this would then result in a much higher prevalence of compulsive behaviors. These people then seek treatment, and voila, we have a significant portion of the population on psychotropic medications.

You now have a portion of the population who are big time gun enthusiasts/borderline fetishists, have 2-second attention spans, are OCD, and on some kind of behavior altering medications.

Whether it's romanticizing guns in Soldier of Fortune magazines, adding a new colorful handle for the "sport shooting" crowd, Doctors prescribing meds, pharma corporations pushing those meds, or consumerism in general, it's all driven by the desire to improve the bottom line. Capitalism.

So is capitalism partly to blame?

I don't know if "capitalism" fully sums up our society's (I'm English).

But I do think how we live in the west by nature creates such dysfunctionality.

Some false ideas we live by..

We dominate and are nolonger part of nature. We have lost a connection to the world around us which ultimately makes our lives hollow.

The breakdown of community.

Greed and individual success being the highest good with no thought for the impact of that on others/the world/environment/natural world/other species.

We have no actual goal we are working towards as a species. We have the means to of solved our lower Maslow needs many times over, which would then allow the species to focus on higher needs, self actualisation etc...

Growth being the measure we live by, totally at odds with living on a world of finite space and resources, at some point we outgrow what we have planet wise.

Unsustainable living practices, gross use of resources..

Breakdown in relationship with that which we use - for example most people have no relationship to the food they eat, products they use etc....

Unhealthy developmental models which fundamentally hamper our essential humanity and goodness.

Our dysfunctions are the side effects of the systems we live in - we need to create better systems.

 

[Neph]

As an outsider to the US the type of capitalism practiced there seems very extreme. Some of the things I will write sadly we have in my home country, so you're not alone in this...

The media is increasingly looking to sell stories. Investigative journalism costs money and clickbait gets more ad revenue. The death of traditional media outlets such as newspapers add to the problem where single snippets of news is what people want to digest. Social media IMO is the worst of the worst and creates horrific echo chambers where your thoughts and ideas are not tested.

Politicians are afraid to make big changes. Maybe this is more of an Australian thing (chip in here Americans), maybe it's a symptom of the media and how negative it is nowadays, but real restructuring doesn't seem to take place. Politicians are afraid and the media is almost never positive on anything. Positivity doesn't really sell.

Politics are incredibly divisive. Every time I see people talking they are abusive towards the opposite side. There's so little constructive conversation. Either the left are cock sucking liberal trans-lovers or the right are ultra-fascist gun loving nazis. When either side portrays each other that way all nuance is gone and all hope of conversation is lost. People stick to their guns and settle into the echo chamber, getting very little real exposure to the other side (which they strawman and caricature so badly).

The US has traded Government power for Corporate power. This hypercapitalism where there is minimal intervention just results in big pharma fucking you hard up the ass. Can you believe there are privatised prisons. Workers rights and holidays are a joke. What the fuck people?? I get that there's a historical precedent in the US for disliking governments and oppression but you are simply trading one for another. Corporations are seriously, seriously, fucking you over and the only way to fix it is to regulate in some fashion. So pick your poison folks...

The level of extreme patriotism blinds you to your faults. Every country has problems and the level of radical patriotism in the US is startling. The % of people who have left the US to go overseas is low, and honestly, it can really show in a lot of conversations. The ignorance of other countries, cultures, customs, and what you have actually inherited from them is a problem. Thinking its okay not to care? That is probably worse.

Individual freedoms seem to trump the communities goals. Everyone wants their own freedoms, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices for a community to work. You do for your family. The way that welfare and health are treated in America is really poor and everyone really pays for it. If someone had reasonable welfare the chances of them turning to crime would be far lower. If mental health were better serviced there would be a lot less violence, crime, and mass shootings. And finally, if guns were less an individual freedom and viewed more from a community safety perspective, some regulation would begin.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

It's about culture and laws. That said, it's hard to do school shootings without access to guns, whether legally or on the black market. In places like China, where access to guns is severely restricted to civilians, you have mass stabbings at schools, but not shootings. In communist/totalitarian countries, civilians aren't allowed to own guns, and they also make it really hard to get on the black market, so less school shootings, although it's not a good trade off overall both socially and economically.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

May as well cut off your testicles and join antifa

I find it funny how so many of them take testosterone blockers and female hormones before going into battle. Seems counterproductive to me. Right now, they're much more organized and prone to violence than the right, but if the right ever says "fuck it" and goes all out, they're fucked.

 

[Stoic1]

We have a lot of mentally ill people. They want to commit suicide. They have access to guns. Now, they know they can do that, and take people with them, and they will be reviled and remembered forever. Maybe that pull is too great for some, maybe they are so angry that they want to cause pain and suffering.

But it is a small number of people that would do this. Many think about it, but few do it. We have far more people that will shoot someone over gang or drug issues just to break up the boredom of their lives and to gain status.

I gave you a like. Not because I like you. But because I agree with you. You're still a jackbooted thug to me <3

 

[Tiny]

I wasn't aware that criminally insane follow laws!

And all we have to do is say "no sir...it's against the law for you to use that type of gun!"

And they will listen! They will say "shit...I was gonna mass shoot people today but now you bastards made this gun outlawed so now I guess I can't..."

Lol.

In fairy tale land that works...in the real world they just do it anyways.

 

[helltoupee]

Criminals are causing this....firearms are inanimate....please tell me you are intelligent enough not to blame an inanimate object.

I'm certainly not going to say that firearms are the sole blame, and I'm not even a "take your guns" type of guy - I have no problem with people owning them responsibly.

However, I don't buy the whole "don't blame an inanimate object argument".

Let's put it this way, would you let your 2 year old child handle a loaded firearm? Would you give one to a room full of kindergartners to play with at lunchtime? I mean, if the gun is just an inanimate object, what's the problem?

 

[silicavaginitis]

I'm certainly not going to say that firearms are the sole blame, and I'm not even a "take your guns" type of guy - I have no problem with people owning them responsibly.

However, I don't buy the whole "don't blame an inanimate object argument".

Let's put it this way, would you let your 2 year old child handle a loaded firearm? Would you give one to a room full of kindergartners to play with at lunchtime? I mean, if the gun is just an inanimate object, what's the problem?

No I wouldn't.Nor would I give them a chainsaw,a knife or keys to an automobile etc.At the end of the day,none of the items including firearms are sentient.

 

[nhbbear]

I gave you a like. Not because I like you. But because I agree with you. You're still a jackbooted thug to me <3

I keep my boots shiny for just such reasons.

 

[Phlog]

I made this post in the Florida thread, and thought maybe it deserved it's own.

I'm pretty sure that it is a widely accepted fact that while household firearm ownership has been dropping, gun sales have been up in the last 30+ years because fewer people are stockpiling more and more weapons than they used to. I have seen arguments that this was the result of a marketing campaign by the gun industry (in response to falling household ownership (profits) in the 70's) to target their hardcore buyers by offering more options, interchangeable parts, colors, specialty guns, etc., creating a fetish of sorts.

I don't think anyone would disagree that we live in a hyper-consumeristic society, and, along with social media and the Internet, ultimately leads us to shorter and shorter attention spans. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this would then result in a much higher prevalence of compulsive behaviors. These people then seek treatment, and voila, we have a significant portion of the population on psychotropic medications.

You now have a portion of the population who are big time gun enthusiasts/borderline fetishists, have 2-second attention spans, are OCD, and on some kind of behavior altering medications.

Whether it's romanticizing guns in Soldier of Fortune magazines, adding a new colorful handle for the "sport shooting" crowd, Doctors prescribing meds, pharma corporations pushing those meds, or consumerism in general, it's all driven by the desire to improve the bottom line. Capitalism.

So is capitalism partly to blame?

No, it's a uniquely American problem and many other countries have capitalism.

Mass shootings have become part of your culture, you can either cease reporting them to avoid the spread or vastly restrict your guns.

 

[Phlog]

Do you think nations like Australia and Britian have become better due to less guns? For example, have they seen a lessening in gun crimes?

You mean was it worth what they gave up, no.

Absolutely it has got better. We have not had a mass shooting since bar one incident with a shotgun.

The gun ban does little to stop criminal use of guns but it does stop the legal acquisition by mad people.

 

[dudeguyman]

I made this post in the Florida thread, and thought maybe it deserved it's own.

I'm pretty sure that it is a widely accepted fact that while household firearm ownership has been dropping, gun sales have been up in the last 30+ years because fewer people are stockpiling more and more weapons than they used to. I have seen arguments that this was the result of a marketing campaign by the gun industry (in response to falling household ownership (profits) in the 70's) to target their hardcore buyers by offering more options, interchangeable parts, colors, specialty guns, etc., creating a fetish of sorts.

I don't think anyone would disagree that we live in a hyper-consumeristic society, and, along with social media and the Internet, ultimately leads us to shorter and shorter attention spans. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this would then result in a much higher prevalence of compulsive behaviors. These people then seek treatment, and voila, we have a significant portion of the population on psychotropic medications.

You now have a portion of the population who are big time gun enthusiasts/borderline fetishists, have 2-second attention spans, are OCD, and on some kind of behavior altering medications.

Whether it's romanticizing guns in Soldier of Fortune magazines, adding a new colorful handle for the "sport shooting" crowd, Doctors prescribing meds, pharma corporations pushing those meds, or consumerism in general, it's all driven by the desire to improve the bottom line. Capitalism.

So is capitalism partly to blame?

I think some people just have dangerous brains. Although the news using shooting massacres to push a gun control agenda is kind of romanticizing the violence and gets those dangerous people thinking about that stuff sometimes. Just my speculation on the matter.

 

[USA!USA!]

sexual frustration imo

time to legalize brothels