Are my coaches assholes?

They do it to trick people who aren't educated. They are written for and by the same kinds of people who buy "karate insurance."

It is nothing more than a dirty trick designed to scare people into thinking they can't sue, and is basically used to bully them with idiocracy when the school's owner fucks up.

It's also a very poorly drafted waiver. I have reviewed contracts for UFC fighters and believe me, the language matters and it would be much harder to sue the UFC for something encompassed in their waivers. A well drafted contract can make it harder to sue. That's all I'm saying on that.
 
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I am talking about civil/contract law generally. The reason these contracts exists is to discourage lawsuits, but just you just can't contract your way out of negligence. I could get you to sign a contract saying you are my slave if you don't repay a debt and the law would reject it. Contracts have to operate within the acceptable legal framework, and in that framework you can't contract away responsibility for reasonable due care.

I could get you to sign a waiver to go on a roller coaster but if it flies off the rails because I did not do maintenance, you can sue and you will win, waiver be damned. So the question is not "what does the contract say" but is the coach at fault? The answer is not black and white and would be a question of fact surrounding the particular case.

It most definitely matters what the contract says. You're providing examples on the extremes - there is a lot of room in between.
 
Everyone here who's passed the bar of their state and has litigated injury cases raise their hands....

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Bring it to a pro...well because they're a pro...

Good points all around buy really as helpful as opinions on how many angles can dance on the head of a pin....
 
I did not complain then because that injury was expected.

If you try to use judo in bjj you should expect to get injured with a closed guard jump or some other shenanigan like a wrist lock jump etc.
Travis Stevens a olympic medalist in judo doesn't pull guard for no reason.
 
Everyone here who's passed the bar of their state and has litigated injury cases raise their hands....

I have passed the bar of my state, and while I have not litigated personal injury cases, I have drafted liability waivers that included waivers for personal injury. I have also dealt with contracts involving liability waivers for professional MMA fighters in the UFC, Bellator, etc. I am not giving actual legal advice on this matter or any specific situations, but am commenting generally on these types of issues.

Yes, if you are considering legal action, always consult an attorney with experience in that field of law. Give the attorney all the details and bring any documents you may have.
 
If you try to use judo in bjj you should expect to get injured with a closed guard jump or some other shenanigan like a wrist lock jump etc.
Travis Stevens a olympic medalist in judo doesn't pull guard for no reason.

When did I say I used judo during the roll? Im assuming you're referring to my ac separation. They offer judo in a separate class. Bjj and judo are kept separately there. I did a knee pick after being in half guard. I didn't do it perfectly giving him a chance to stand up. I stood up along with him, and he pulled a jumping guard.
 
I would think think contract is null when my leg literally bends the other way, and I cant walk for 1+ years. Pretty much why I was in shock; think anderson silva's
injury but to the knee joint.

Every fitness and martial arts gym Ive ever went to a had thing where you can cancel a membership due to injury especially if it's on their premises.

I was looking for some empathy from the coaches and maybe an ambulance called? And maybe tell your fucken white and blue belts not to do jumping guard. Iuno if you know how douchey that move is.

Ive also been in a gym where a guy got his teeth knocked out, and we all pooled together money to pay for reconstructive surgery. Im not expecting anyone to pay for my shit. But empathy goes a long way.
WAIT A MINUTE. ..
you can't walk for a year. Brother are.you making that number or a real Dr told you that. When you have ACL surgery you typically have to walk that day or next. Anderson SilVA was walking 6 weeks after. All of my knee surgeries the longest I could be non weight bering was 6 weeks.

Maybe you are still in shock. You should go see a dr
 
The head coach is acting shady, and I'm just trying to see if I'm being irrational for being mad. I signed up knowing bjj could get me injured. I had an ac separation from doing judo at the school, and I did not complain then because that injury was expected. I took two months to heal it and came back. Did not expect a jumping guard from training partner. Ironically, I had voiced my concern for it to my bjj coach the week before.
Sounds like you get injured a lot. Common Denominator Theory tells me it's you
 
WAIT A MINUTE. ..
you can't walk for a year. Brother are.you making that number or a real Dr told you that. When you have ACL surgery you typically have to walk that day or next. Anderson SilVA was walking 6 weeks after. All of my knee surgeries the longest I could be non weight bering was 6 weeks.

Maybe you are still in shock. You should go see a dr

Are you blaming this one me?
The first injury was off a bad throw and totally my fault. This injury was off my training partner doing a jumping guard; I was never ever taught what to do. Not that it mattered because my knee gave out before I had time to react. And for a matter of fact, I did see a doc. This is just the first page; also, have the peroneal nerve damage causing a foot drop. So, please dont make assumptions when I stated my side clearly. There's a difference between weightbearing and walking normally.

 

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I have passed the bar of my state, and while I have not litigated personal injury cases, I have drafted liability waivers that included waivers for personal injury. I have also dealt with contracts involving liability waivers for professional MMA fighters in the UFC, Bellator, etc. I am not giving actual legal advice on this matter or any specific situations, but am commenting generally on these types of issues.

Yes, if you are considering legal action, always consult an attorney with experience in that field of law. Give the attorney all the details and bring any documents you may have.

Thank you for the advice. As for pressing legal action, I don't know. I actually like the bjj coach and the guy I rolled with. The gym actually takes the time to coach highschool wrestling, so at heart they are good people. I just feel disrespected by the head coach and dont know if I should be feeling this angry about it.
 
It most definitely matters what the contract says. You're providing examples on the extremes - there is a lot of room in between.

This. Of course waivers mean something. They are a contract and contract law applies. They might not mean they are free to act with wilful abandonment in all areas, but they most certainly cover a lot of things.
 
Thank you for the advice. As for pressing legal action, I don't know. I actually like the bjj coach and the guy I rolled with. The gym actually takes the time to coach highschool wrestling, so at heart they are good people. I just feel disrespected by the head coach and dont know if I should be feeling this angry about it.

Talk to him man to man. I know it sounds like a non-suggestion, but a good conversation solves a lot of problems without them becoming bigger deals.
 
Since when the hell is jumping guard a dangerous move? And why the hell is everyone siding with the TS?

Yeah, it really blows that TS blew his knee out and I feel for you but how is this the instructors fault? Guard pulling/jumping isn't anymore dangerous than any other takedown. Not to mention its impossible for the instructors to supervise every second of every roll.

Instead of blaming everyone else for your bum luck, get to rehabbing and training around the injury.
 
It most definitely matters what the contract says. You're providing examples on the extremes - there is a lot of room in between.

I am not saying contracts are irrelevant, I am speaking to the classic example of contracts have real hard limits in the area of waivers with regard to negligence and reasonable behavior.

I break my leg skiing and signed a waiver, if the trails were not marked, ski patrol not present, rules on reckless skiing not enforced, I could have grounds to sue, waiver be damned. Waivers help set the rules of the game which is good in a court case, but civil trials still ask if there was a fault leading to damages and if the defendant was behaving reasonably.

Which is all I'm saying, if the BJJ instructor can be shown to have been acting unreasonably and it can be linked to the injury, he could be in trouble, and the waiver won't save him. To make it real black and white, say all schools abide by IBJJF rules on guard pulling becuase it's super dangerous. He ignores it and does no training on it and claims to be an IBJJF school, his waiver would be useless. Ok end rant :)
 
The first injury was off a bad throw and totally my fault. This injury was off my training partner doing a jumping guard; I was never ever taught what to do.

‘Fum6duck’, I know it sucks to get injured, but try to put this behind you. Get healed up and move on with life. I don’t know if you’ll be coming back to training. Get the issue with the school contract settled. Wait a few days if you are not comfortable going in right away to talk. Your instructor has seen this kind of thing before and is just waiting on you to tell him what your next step is going to be. See what the doctor has to say about continuing practicing Martial Arts. If not, there is plenty of other stuff out there that you can do. It is not worth getting injured over and over or having an injury for life. Just look at some of the professional football players and what their health is like after they retire.

 
I don’t know ‘Striker’, it seems pretty clear to me…

In the contract:
“I recognize the risks of injury that are common to any performing arts program that my child or I participate in and I do hereby waive and release the Company from and against any and all claims, actions, causes of action, damages, costs, liabilities, expense of judgments, including attorney's fees and court costs, that arise out of my participation in this program. I hereby execute this Waiver and Release form permitting my minor child and / or myself to participate in the Company's program.”

These forms sometimes do not hold up in court because (supposedly) no one can sign their rights away not to sue in case of serious injury. To address this problem schools (and tournaments) use an assumption of the riskform. The rule of law follows this pattern: “If you knew the danger and you did it anyway and you got hurt because of the danger you knew about, then you cannot sue." Physicians have patients sign documents after the doctor informs them of the danger of surgery. It’s called informed consent, an assumption of the risk and it seems to stand up in court.

I personally think that if schools did not make you sign the form they would be out of business fast. Why take the risk of being sued?




Depends what state you are in ... a number of states have laws that nullify waiver of liability for recreational activities... not sure where OP lives


https://recreation-law.com/2010/12/16/states-that-do-not-support-the-use-of-a-release-3/
 
Depends what state you are in ... a number of states have laws that nullify waiver of liability for recreational activities... not sure where OP lives


https://recreation-law.com/2010/12/16/states-that-do-not-support-the-use-of-a-release-3/

Specifically they appear to be preventing the use of waivers that commit you to not pursuing legal action. They're not necessarily stopping you being asked to agree that you accept the risk on your own shoulders.

So whilst they can't stop you suing, if you've agreed that it's dangerous and you're doing it anyway, then that's going to mean something in court. You're likely to have to prove gross negligence.
 
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